💣┇weapons-gadgets

[plucky spade]

Defib simply allows you to defend yourself while the other person is getting rezzed

Turret buff idea:
Turret immediately locks on and starts shooting at a target, if said target is LOS ofc and was damaged by the turret owner.
Helps the turret become a lot more responsive, instead of waiting for it to stop looking around and shoot

[unique swallow]

When Medium weapon are stronger than Light

[soft juniper]

Is it ok to go without jump pad or zip line as a medium?

[bitter surge]

Why did the Cloaking device got buffed ?

[ionic mason]

Just saw a vid talking about it. Is the Cerberus supposed to set goo on fire? I've tested it so many times and it never did anything to goo.

[eternal patrol]

Lol

[uncut peak]

They work well togwther but carrying pad by itself isnt as nessrsary as it used to be

I think whar your supposrd to do is use zipline out of combat and pad to get in and out of it

Using pad by itaelf when ur the only medium is kinda wack though

[mystic nimbus]

cuz it needed one, not this kind of buff but whatever

[copper light]

ok someone pls explain the cerberus for me, im a bit confused... so you cant set players ablaze but you cant set other things on fire, but its just a chance? or do i need at least to shots?

[eternal patrol]

i'm pretty sure the second shot to them is what creates the blaze fire

[copper light]

cant confirm, for now it seems like a random chance but not for players only for not-players? man this thing confuses me, sometimes on the fist shot, sometimes one the second, rarely every three fired wont do anything... so either this is on purpose or the weapon is buggy

[spark carbon]

it depends on the amount of pellets you land, which also build up

[copper light]

ok thats what i was questioning myself if this thing works wiht build up, would say thats confirmed, but it doesnt affect players right?

or is it just on the practice range that the practice-players just wont catch on fire?

[spark carbon]

no the whole weapon should be using a heat system i’m pretty sure

like if you land consistent two shots in close range you’ll set them ablaze, whereas if you do 3 shots at a further distance no after burn will occur

[copper light]

hm... and it seems like that different things got a different build up threshhold to burn, on practice range some bigger trees need all 3 shots from pointblank, some smaller just take one shot at point blank

[spark carbon]

allegedly the gun also sets enemy goo on fire but doesn’t for ‘friendly’ goo created by your teammates and yourself

[spark carbon]

i think the wood and trees is just more flammable. you can also ignite gas with just 3 shots

[spark carbon]

practice range dummies don’t get caught on fire, yes.

[copper light]

it seems like it wont take long and someone will take a deep dive into that weapon and hopefully make a youtube video about it 😂

[copper light]

oh ok, thats good to hear 😄

[spark carbon]

like if you use the flamethrower on the dummies it won’t give them that after burn tick damage, too

[copper light]

ok now im less worried and gonna leave it in the loadout for now, time to test the shak 😄

[copper light]

https://tenor.com/view/letterkenny-katie-katy-can-confirm-dycks-gif-27029629

hell didnt know that, that should written somewhere in the practice range, just assumed they would burn 😄

[ionic mason]

I've been getting conflicting info on the gun too.
Some say you can only burn enemy goo, that you need three shots for gas or that there is a delay, but I can only confirm that you can not burn your own goo at all.

[copper light]

hm thats weird... for consistency it would be better to be able to set your own goo on fire and imo for balancing too

[spark carbon]

gas is always three shots from what i’ve seen

[ionic mason]

Oh I'd absolutely love that utility for the gun to make up for the damage compared to the model.
But if there is a heat system on it, it must take more shots than the goo has health

[vocal coral]

ss

[plucky spade]

only enemy goo is set on fire

[bitter surge]

U can stand still with it for more than 2 minutes lmao

[mystic nimbus]

yeah that's why i said the wrong buff

also easily counterd by thermal or decent game sense

[fossil juniper]

yo guys, whats your opinion on the shak? The UI says 20 bullets but there are actually 40

and somone in another channel said its better because the shotgun also shoots 9 pellets but its still 1 "shot" - well yeah its one shotgun shell

and how can the shak shoot 2 bullets at the same time with one barrel

so many questions

[small crypt]

I’ll never financially recover from this 😥

[dawn swan]

Wait it only has one barrel

[dawn swan]

Umm then it’s magic I guess

[plain wasp]

It loads 2 at once, probably

[warm jackal]

Should we have a thing that can slow down the time in an area? It is like slowing down everything. Players, objects, even cashouts.

[terse gorge]

the bullets come out next each other

[terse gorge]

oh hell no, I dont wanna watch me die even faster

[plain wasp]

The second barrel is the friends we made along the way

[terse gorge]

I‘d be Neo without the avoiding thingy lol

[terse gorge]

The way is the finish line

[warm jackal]

No, the bullets will be slowed down too. I'm thinking of a grenade that cna slow down EVERYTHING for a little while like 3~5 seconds

[terse gorge]

https://tenor.com/view/mood-dance-russiankiddance-club-dancevibe-gif-21421102

[warped flame]

what do people think about an smg for medium? would it be balanced enough to put in the game or would it just be overpowered?

[terse gorge]

oh hell no

[restive plover]

If it's just a normal gun there's no way to balance it.

If it's a weird support tool like the Cerberus is now, maybe.

[warm jackal]

Tommy lol

[warped flame]

haha that would be way to unbalanced

i was thinking like an xp50 but less range and damage per second, but i guess that wouldn't really be an smg

[warm jackal]

How, it is just the rate of fire, the spread is crazy

[warped flame]

the fire rate would have to be slower than the light smgs, but then again it maybe wouldn't be an smg if that happened

[warm jackal]

That is what I'm saying. Mid can have a ragular SMG with a longer reload time and a wider spread

[warped flame]

ah ok that makes sense

[full wyvern]

I'm in firing range with the new shotgun, and there's been nothing related to fire while using it. what does it do

[sullen bear]

This makes a lot of sense. I feel like maybe you should only be using the defibs with heal beam so that you can heal right away … but then after all that, you might as well have just normal revived, like you said

[plain wasp]

The fire doesn't work on the firing range dummies

[full wyvern]

... why????? That's the FIRST THING people are gonna shoot with it to test it

[warm jackal]

Dagger's strike attack (Second attack) should recieve a higher damage even if it is not a back stab

[ionic mason]

Are the metro drifter boots supposed to be white? They look awful, like it's a bug!
If it didn't come with curency, i'd refund it just cause of those tbh

[narrow solar]

in retrospect i think these were pretty good balance cahnges for the beginnign of the season

does somebody have any advice on how to use new light gadget besides just a trap to throw a grenade in

[narrow solar]

yes they are

[warped flame]

if you put them far enough away it can pull the cash out away

[narrow solar]

can it pull people off the cashout when stealing?

[warm jackal]

Yep

[narrow solar]

ooo nice

[warm jackal]

You use the cans in the arena and pull everything together to make a nuke. It is shown in the trailer. Sometimes trailers are really helpful

[warm jackal]

It is just the area it effects, you might pull the opponent and the cashout station at the same time, which won't stop that dude from cashing out

[narrow solar]

ok so i figured out you can pull it up, them when it drops down it has a chance of cancelling, especially if u make a hole in the under and pull it up

[uncut peak]

No

[harsh sage]

is the new shotgun getting a range buff? range could be equivalent as the model 0o0

[dull marsh]

Any tips for Dagger? Im ass with it

[bleak pecan]

I heard that you could probably combo it with evasive dash, but I wouldn’t know

I also have a pretty stupid loadout that includes it, never tried using it.

[dull marsh]

I made a whole character just to use the dagger with haha

[bleak pecan]

Lmao same

[grand hawk]

yeah

[warm jackal]

Bruh don't be like that

[warm jackal]

Watch videos online. They help. Nothing special, just by doing back stab. You need to practice in the training ground on your swinging, so you can get more back stabs.

[glass mango]

What are the meta classes/guns this season?

[gaunt rover]

Light m1a/m11/pistol, medium famas/fcar, heavy s12/any automatic I think

Light meta rn is dumb

[uncut peak]

I hate dagger light they are good enough

[mighty sparrow]

Dagger users are scary

[glass mango]

Great thanks

[royal pier]

Embark goes from barely buffing the 93r, then just says "fuckit" and makes it the Light Famas.

[tidal hollow]

If they had the same range they would have the same niche

Embark has expressed that they want each gun to have its own role

They should buff the burn effect

[uncut peak]

Agreeed

[bleak pecan]

Imagine if there was a weapon/gadget having a main purpose of making enemy contestants take more damage, like a "Bleed" weapon of sorts.

[white torrent]

can someone give me a list with all of the funny goo/barricade tech that still works?

[sinful dagger]

The only time light was ever meta was terminal attack

[gilded kelp]

anyone have a good idea were the heavys shak50 stands gainst the lmgs? like is better damge wise or anything

[frail willow]

is it just me or does the dual blades deflect feel worse now? im staring right at someone and it only blocks 10 out of 30 bullets they shoot, and it only reflects 2 of those 10 bullets

[gaunt rover]

I’m referring to cloak being way too strong

[full glen]

How are we feeling about lights this season?

[shell sonnet]

i have a ||very incomplete|| goo gun manual if you like

[white torrent]

sure

[shell sonnet]

is it just me, or does anybody else feel like not burning your own goo is a detriment?

like, i use goo + fire to defend my cashout for longer periods of time
this would save a slot, where i dont need to use pyro

but it just cant ignite it

[white torrent]

is it updated to new season 5 goo changes?

[shell sonnet]

its old ish, not updated at all
but most should still work fine

[full glen]

Hear me out a magic/wizard theme season with spell books as new weapons or even specializations tbh for each class like give lights a freeze medium get some sort of healing maybe a healing ring stay in the zone and you get healed and for heavy maybe some kind of fireball that destroys walls or sum

[shell sonnet]

im a heavy procrastinator

i should work on that again

[green aspen]

It makes sense because realistically goo is decently tough, so a few sparks isn’t gunna light it unlike gas

[shell sonnet]

imo gas should be 1-2 shots to ignite and goo 3

because not igniting it at all is pretty bleh

[green aspen]

I agree that gas should be 2 shots

[shell sonnet]

or make it so that you can shoot paralel to it, and at least one of them will be ignited

[shell sonnet]

i do have a file with some ideas
let me look it up

its missing:
-air breaking
-turret blocking
-demat
-goo jump (pad)
-sky cover
-goo trip wire
-ufo blocking

probably more

[shell sonnet]

isnt it like thermite sparks?
considering how hot they are, ignition should not be an issue imo

[green aspen]

Ig so but just use demat instead tbh cuz it’s one of the best specializations anyways

[shell sonnet]

cant forget the sky crate ambush

[zinc kiln]

Hate to be this person but what is the meta heavy gun rn? I've been playing sledge for quite a while now but j feal it's kinda time to move on

[mystic nimbus]

https://medal.tv/games/minecraft/clips/jhFOi4nlq0jBZvp1X?invite=cr-MSxIN3QsMzEzMzM3MDU3LA

what

[lucid rain]

Pretty sure the Lewis is the undisputed best gun for heavy. The new gun is also looking promising and depending on your playstyle the SA and the Deagles seems to be a solid pick.

[hexed tulip]

looks like the finals to me

[mystic nimbus]

[hasty juniper]

hate to break it to you man but this ain’t a minecraft server

[cyan bobcat]

medium weapon concept: m1911 double barrel
❓ .45 ACP pistol that shoots 2 rounds at the same time
🩸 dmg: 23x2, 37x2 headshots | dmg falloff start: 20m, max falloff: 26m (-30% dmg)
🔥 rpm limit: faster than r .357 but slower than deagles
🎯 aimed accuracy: good, hip-fire accuracy: okay but not very good
💪 recoil: same as deagles
⏱️ reload speed: 2.2s
mag size: 8

thoughts?
edit: changed the reload speed to be 0.3s faster than r .357

[limpid crypt]

I think you should stop smoking meth

[swift carbon]

honestly, i like it

fits the wackiness of finals well

[boreal laurel]

I do love how the devs always manage to find weird and wonky weapons to add. At this point a plain old M16 or Glock would be way out of character

[bronze rivet]

The new weapon idea's that will be whacky or down right fun should go to some new melee weapons heavy gets boxing gloves or a claymore
Medium gets a wrench or a hammer
And light gets num chucks or a crowbar

And new gadget for all classes a impact nade

[toxic plover]

great sword

parry mechanic
does an upward slash (opposite of sledge direction)
while holding parry teammates can use as a portable launch pad
to balance have a stamina meter for parry (block meter)
momentum based slashing (longer time swinging faster it attacks) (first 4-5 swings, the speed increases then stays at max speed for 15-25 more swings)

4 special attacks to destroy wall. Special attacks take 2 seconds from start up of parry pose.
while parrying blocks 25% of dmg
35 dmg for primary swing (maybe less dmg per swing)
250 dmg for secondary (charged upwards slash)

Already made a concept for it with other people on the discord here

Y'all think the new found lockbolt launcher tech is gonna get patched?

[toxic plover]

M60 is goated. Personally if you like sledge, try the spear

[mild karma]

Been thoroughly playtesting the new Cerberus shotgun, and in my honest opinion it kind of sucks.

The incendiary rounds don't do their job half the time, it has the weakest weapon range in the game as far as I can tell, no damage worth raising a brow to, and no reason to ever be used over the Model. The best trait about it is it's reload, but with only 3 shots to work with it had Better be. 🤨

Example: I shot a light class yesterday three times within what I would say was 3-6 meters away in Bank It, aiming somewhere between the belly/chest area and still lost the 1v1 having only done 73 damage to him including the burn damage. Ridiculous.

I am still having fun with season 5 but it's just a little lackluster in my opinion, I would've much rather seen either an actual sniper rifle or adrenaline shot specialization increasing movement speed for a short time added to medium class had I known it'd be like this.

[zealous anchor]

what do yall think is the best medium gun or loadout

[toxic plover]

I don't care what they do to it so long as it doesn't instantly catch goo on fire

[toxic plover]

Demat famas glitch mine goo grenade, jumppad

[zealous anchor]

dang the scar must have fell off

and the model 18

[toxic plover]

Famas out DPS the fcar, has better range, and amazing hipfire.

[zealous anchor]

i see, intreresting

is it better to use iron sights on it or nah

[toxic plover]

Nah bro keep the scope or you loose one of the pros. It has better recoil pattern than Fcar too

[zealous anchor]

alright

also fuck every person that uses the anti gravity thing,

[toxic plover]

Cube or vortex?

[zealous anchor]

vortex

[toxic plover]

I don't worry too much, I just winch the cashout away. But I main heavy

[zealous anchor]

:C

[toxic plover]

You main medium?

[zealous anchor]

yes

the build that honestly looks the best overall

[spice vigil]

what about a bullet that travels 1cm a second but does 500 damage am a cooking

[zealous anchor]

so a shotgun

that actually 1 shots

[toxic plover]

Yeah medium is overtuned

Or at least light and heavy are weak

[restive plover]

Buff m11

[sand monolith]

Yeah it’s not really a solo play weapon it’s more meant for teamfights / comp

It’s pretty strong in HHM if you pretend model isn’t in the game

[mild karma]

My standard is Zipline for mobility, explosive mine as a defensive trap (usually setting them down in doorways and closing the door, or at the end of zip lines to guarantee people run into them) and lastly, Gas grenade to defend cash outs from being stolen/to block doorways or choke points when I'm being chased.

[wind lintel]

God I love this thing it's so dum

[wind lintel]

I honestly don't see a point in fire damage, Most people getting hit by my flamethrower survive burn with a couple ticks of hp left but even then it has decent dps.
cerbs dps seems lower than model and it's burn doesn't deal enough damage for it to be useful in any scenario other than some niece cases where a light dies after running away but a model would've just killed them outright

[narrow solar]

Why do u say that

I main the gun and I think it’s great. Visual recoil be reduced helped it slot too I feel like

[tribal stream]

I love how cerb is either amazing or terrible

[restive plover]

Maybe just a slight damage buff

[shadow onyx]

Since when did this game become hard. In S1 and S2 I used to go like 27-2 all the time and now it's so laggy and the enemies are better 😢 😢

[faint steppe]

Smaller playerbase + people tend to improve their gameplay over time

[toxic plover]

A lot less visual recoil. Shit even I am hitting shots across map

[cyan orbit]

It's been hard

[edgy sundial]

hi, I'm a new player and fairly new to shooters too. i play medium. which gun should i go for? I'm not usually a sniper type and i like something that fires fast.
I'm not really good at technical stuff with guns and stats so i was hoping i could get some help maybe :)

[shadow onyx]

Fr we need og season back 😭😭

[shut bane]

No we dont

[toxic plover]

Increase lockbolt duration by 3 seconds, tether to range by 1 meter, and make the tethers shorter 🗿🗿🗿

[vale obsidian]

yo i havn't play the new season yet, can someone give me a run down of how every new gatgid and weapon plays?
also improve visual recoil sound awesome

[real oxide]

They should add dreadlock hairstyles into the game im suprised they still havent added any.

[shut bane]

New medium shotty is essentially db but three barrels, not nearly as easy to use but still fast ttk, faster than model even if you’re close enough and place the shots well, Shak50 is kind of like the lmg’s but with very controllable recoil and better hipfire use at close range, lock bolt is a very good weapon for tethering and tracking players trying to run away, especially light rats, and black hole grenade has yet to be figured out tbh

Though it can really throw off teams at an objective

Map is also very well optimized and pretty imo, actually I think the game runs much smoother now in general after reloading shaders

[royal pier]

All everything fire-based needs is for the first instance of said damage being a guaranteed burn proc that lasts a set duration (unless put out by smoke/water). Once the burn ends, have a brief period where the target can't burn again (sub 1 sec.). then the next instance of fire damage repeats the process.

[tardy oar]

Not something they need to add, but imagine if the stun gun incapacitated a player and made them do randomly physics

[ripe prawn]

[toxic plover]

You want player characters to have seizures you mean

[tardy oar]

I was thinking ragdoll physics

[royal pier]

Idk, I like the Cerberus.

I'm weird, though.

I put my Guardian Turret and APS turret on cans/props and use them to block/deal damage as I approach.

If you center the turret on the enemy, they'll shoot it before hitting you a lot of the time. If you put it on a goo can and they shoot it, that often protects you as well.

[fallen kiln]

If only cerberus burned goo, it hurts my smooth brain every time I hit a goo wall and nothing happens but person near it lights on fire. Also cerberus chunks pretty hard, might be pretty good in competitive!

[gaunt terrace]

https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/U2mgOLFxvE

[gaunt terrace]

Just takes a couple shots then it will ignite!

[inner lynx]

Are somewhere available detailed gun statistics, like time between bursts in famas or time of both types of reloads, that is with empty and not empty mag ? Website, game files, idk

[faint steppe]

Not mine. Credit to Zaffermann. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ud7Rdl3AgMw9mmfDwW2LtDMnzZQ9IIhnqSE4ivsaMTs/htmlview#gid=2136619021

[inner lynx]

thanks a lot

[worn snow]

does the scoped sight on the m26 matter give it a sniper glint

[lapis pine]

do some of you guys still run defib? or do you guys not use it anymore and what do you use instead

[wheat vector]

Why is it that when im shooting someone he isnt die but when someone shoots me I get instakilled(

[latent canopy]

True brother

[fossil juniper]

he shoot better that why u die and you shoot not good thats why he no die

[plucky spade]

I bet you it was a skill issue, if anything, the spread helped you land damage, with a model you wouldn't have even dealt 50

[simple crest]

Model is just better

[twin sonnet]

Yo can someone tell me where to find the dimwit that wanted a fire shotgun

[plucky spade]

He's probably enjoying it rn

[plucky spade]

That's a different issue
Remember that cerb can 2 shot meds

[vale obsidian]

funny thing is that the fire do barely anything, it just really annoying bc all the particle blocking your view

[twin sonnet]

Playing as a light the fire does a lot and playing power shift against all mediums with it is just impossible

And why did they make defibrillator useless

Now I get rezed and have to just accept death since u have no way of defending urself anymore

[fickle radish]

It's not the defib that is useless, are the players using it that are useless and don't read the patch notes

Even if I don't like this nerf is not that hard to use it properly. Just take the damn statue on a safe place and then revive

[steel tartan]

I feel that there should be a gadget that has like a few bullets but when you shoot it,it revives your teammates

[tidal solar]

Playing after a long time, is 93R better than m11 right now?

[steel tartan]

In my opinion yes

[vale obsidian]

nah uh
no range rez 🙏

[steel tartan]

Yeah I suppose that would be too op

[warm jackal]

Sure

[plucky spade]

well, the med that rezzed you should not be a complete fucking idiot and expect someone to be rezzed in the middle of the fight and live

[delicate flare]

god i wish they would remove the stun gun already

[modern jay]

defib just keeps getting nerfs, they need to consider a rework

[vale obsidian]

its already balance now *balance enough
it dose not need a rework

[restive plover]

It and heal beam would have been fine if they would just properly dealt with the model.

Nerf model to 108, revert defib sickness and heal beam's range + heals per second.

[vale obsidian]

defib sickness you mean the cool down on rezed player?

[modern jay]

they nerfed it to the the point it feels horrible to use but its still going to be used because its a fundamentally strong ability

[restive plover]

That's what they called it.

[modern jay]

getting rezzed before already sucked. hologram, spawn at half health, often missing ammo you were very weak

now you dont even get abilities

[vale obsidian]

thats a soloQ issue, i don't think any kind of balance change would slove that

[vale obsidian]

its a good trade for no more defib chainning

[modern jay]

if only defib started on cooldown that one thing but you are a sitting duck missing health, ammo, abilities; the only option is run for your life

[gloomy bobcat]

For a team leader medium player, whats the best gadgets that I should really take consideration? (Defib is a no brainer)

[patent glade]

Does anyone know where I can give ideas to embark. I have a genuine gadget idea

[restive plover]

Defib is possibly the worst case of planning for failure in a video game. Don't know its just me but I find items that are designed with the idea that you are planning for you or your teammates to die to really low thought low skill and adding very little depth to the game, with the defib sickness and half health now you can't just blindly defib your teammate in the middle of a fight and expect them to be able to reasonably survive, sometimes when i get defibed I feel like I'm often in a worse place than I was when I was dead and I think this is a good trade off for essentially instant life.

tl;dr. defib boring to play with, boring to play against, defib sickness adds some much needed risk.

[covert parcel]

just got buffed this patch, def worth trying

[twin sonnet]

The problem with defib is that it’s meant to be able to pick u straight back up into the action I need to be taken to a save place to be rezed then just don’t use the deciding since time wise it’s about the same and defib just means I can’t use gadgets for like 5 seconds and have half health

Oh and this dash double barrel needs to be nerfed since it’s all I’m playing against and I just can’t do nothin but get double tapped

[narrow solar]

Idk man it does plenty of damage

[split crescent]

hey was wondering hows the melee on med?

dual blades and riot shield, is there a way to test em out smh?

[sage steppe]

I like the dual swords. The deflect back is nice but tbh i spend most of my time healing when I run dual swords.

[split crescent]

would it be better to use turret or the other thing?

i havent ran medium yet

[sage steppe]

I havent ran it with the turret. I can see it being a good compensation for your lack of distance. Tbh im a light sword main, but turrets are the hardest thing for me to deal with next to melee heavies haha

[median crown]

despite the missing strats and tech, i think this is the most comprehensive goo gun guide right now, good shit

im glad theres more than 1 goo gun main out there documenting this stuff

[crude kestrel]

I start playiing the goo gun today, very fun, but I die a lot :/

[obsidian lagoon]

Yo anyone knows a refreshing build right now which isn’t bad as well? I was grinding emerald one last season and it got kinda repetitive playing meta and the same weapons and now I really don’t know what to play

[crude kestrel]

very cool

[slim flicker]

is there any good uses for the lockbolt gadget?

[wind lintel]

keeping enemies from running away or catching you?

[slim flicker]

i mean yeah

[wind lintel]

its cooldown is the same as rpg though

i thought it was gonna be op but its tether range is so long that it doesnt bother you too much if you dont run in a straight line

[median crown]

goo gun, sledge, rpg, barricade, motion sensor is what i run, its pretty fun and i got diamond with it a while ago so i'd say it's viable

[subtle marlin]

can somone tell me a good mid class build with cus i cant decide what weapon to play there

i play the game simce realise but still its hard to decide

[compact tundra]

I have been finding sentry and Cerberus with pyronade to be a very fun combo

I typically run jump pad and difib with it

[subtle marlin]

idk like Cerberus is fun but i dont like to play shoutguns that much the model 1887 is the only one i liked that much

[crude kestrel]

same

[next geyser]

defib should be specialization?

[restive plover]

does the SA shotgun on heavy have a better spread if you ads?

[sharp wing]

no

none of the shotguns do i think

[shell sonnet]

so youre documenting this stuff too?

[median crown]

im working on making a goo gun yt video rn

[shell sonnet]

i hope you wont mind if i just copy that over to my written manuel

[median crown]

yeah ofc

[shell sonnet]

:)

[shell sonnet]

if you remember, could you @ me once you post it?

[median crown]

if i remember yeah lol

[shell sonnet]

it plays quite differently

i mostly just force enemies into choke and try to deny attacks
or i flank a ton

[vale mulch]

why are the most fun weapons so bad

spear is the most fun ive had in this game ever but like, its SPEAR

[gloomy bobcat]

sooooo what else then?

Also thanks, as a 9-hour player you opened my eyes to when I should even defib

Some random ass time i would defib my randoms whenever i get the chance alive or dead

[gloomy bobcat]

But.. spear

I never get the chance to kill a heavy with it

[vale mulch]

its satisfying killing that mosquito dash m11 light after using winch

[gloomy bobcat]

Truly

[limpid dragon]

https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/Drj9ihPcrB

[vocal urchin]

Charge and slam should be locked into a straight line. None of that serpentine stuff to get upwards of 340(130+80+50 the charge, ~70 damage from the slam) through a roughly 10 second cooldown ability.

[quasi warren]

this

[hasty juniper]

maybe not straight, cuz you will have lots of issues of going off naps, but maybe lower the sens when using ur

[fleet brook]

I thought it already had lower sens

[dawn swan]

Charge N slam have hard counter and doesn’t see much use on higher rank why nerf

[bronze hornet]

Since it’s a Mexican theme season… can we get a throwing knife camo as a sandal

[vocal urchin]

Charge and slam does not have a hard counter? The best counter is positioning but that’s never perfect especially in the finals.

[vocal urchin]

Let them cancel it if they’d go off, it’s better than the loop de loops that they currently can do, if you lower the sensitivity more it just gives a bigger advantage to the more competitive heavies.

[shell sonnet]

And even side-stepping (which is already massively inconsistent) still lets the heavy 180° for an realistically unmissable aoe slam

Locked direction would be pretty good imo
(Maybe increase wall penetratiokna bit for destruction)

Still lets me defend myself with mgl
But cuts down on a lot of the cheese

[fleet brook]

I feel like locked direction would be a pretty big nerf/ change and would require some kind of compensation to not continue the meme of nerfing the fun things on heavy

[shell sonnet]

I mean
Heavy is supposed to be the destruction class

If they had a stronger grip on that, it would probaly be a sufficient incentive to use them

Take thermal bore from light, give it to hevay

Change lights breach charge to have 1 charge but a somewhat shorter cooldown (so they cant do mass destruction)

And buff the odd heavy destruction util

Only problem would be lag spikes...

But might not end up much different than sledge

A meme option that is rarely a problem

Mostly just giving choices and incentive for usage

[prime coral]

Heavy needs a destruction buff to the Grenade Launcher, and his GL to detonate on contact with a player. That would help make him a bit more destruction oriented.

[sudden pilot]

Did someone say mass destruction..

[fleet brook]

I feel like over time class identity has become blurred

[shell sonnet]

Im not sure about this myself, i feel like thats a good thing
Gives more loadout options and playstyle variability, dispite wanting the "wrong class"

But maybe its different

[restive plover]

If we're just going to ignore identity and give any class whatever it begs the question of why even have/play a class based shooter to begin with?

[toxic plover]

Now he's asking the real questions. On that note, give heavy zipline/ a heal grenade

[toxic plover]

Gravity cube is a hard counter

And winch

[vocal urchin]

Both heavy locked items. Lights and mediums are the ones that are most susceptible to charge and slam and can actually die to a single ability usage of it

So sure, they are counters, but not much use.

Charge and Slam really needs a change because it consistently feels awful to play against, it has just not gotten enough attention to actually be changed.

[toxic plover]

Jumppad, demat, for medium. Dash/grapple hook, stun gun for light. What's your point

[shell sonnet]

Playstyle does not need to equal identity

There are multiple ways to reach a goal/playstyle

And those can be adjusted to fit any specific class

Eg. Defending
Light can still do this
Quickly get in, stun, get out

Stuff like that

[toxic plover]

To be fair. I think I would prefer class weapons to have inherit buffs. Like ALL heavy weapons can destroy environment. For medium, shooting allys heals then for half as much damage per bullet. For light, shooting enemies does a .1second glitch effect per hit

[vocal urchin]

My point is that charge and slam requires perfect finesse to play light and medium while facing a heavy, because the heavy can press a singular button and kill them in about 1 second, much faster than those items can counter. Something needs to happen to make it more predictable or deal less damage per usage.

That was poorly worded, but do you understand or should I reword that?

[toxic plover]

I hear you I just disagree because of what I just told you

[dawn swan]

If you just get killed by a single heavy when he charges you 1 second on a daily basis I consider that a skill issue

[dawn swan]

And our fellow winch on heavy

Especially considering the fact that on high elo there’s so many winch 1216 heavy, which makes charge N slam almost unplayable if team with winch organize well

[toxic plover]

You didn't see my previous point, but anti gravity cube is a hard counter as weel

[mighty oasis]

Ok I love the Shak-50 now. 27 kills in quick cash with it

[fickle radish]

Isn't antigrav cube almost easy af to break?

[shut bane]

I don’t get the hate for the Cerberus

Faster ttk than model up close, burn damage to delay recovery time or finish off weak opponents, no need to chamber every shell, at the cost of range these are some very nice benefits are they not? It seems very balanced to me, though I do think mediums will need to build around it a little to force those close quarter engagements more often depending on the map

[toxic plover]

Only if nobody has anything else better to do@fickle radish

[lilac hemlock]

Dagger Rework Proposal

This rework introduces a refined melee combat system, balancing consistency, risk, and reward to make the dagger a high-skill, high-impact tool for stealth-oriented gameplay. The goal is to enhance depth while maintaining balance for both casual and competitive players.

Mechanics Overview

Left-Click (Quick Attack)

• Functions as it currently does in The Finals.
• Damage: Fixed at 50 per hit, with no bonus damage for attacking from behind.
• Delivers quick, reliable attacks, ideal for steady DPS.

Right-Click (Special Heavy Attack)
Introduces two distinct mechanics:

1. Heavy Stab (Instant Backstab):

   • Triggered by tapping right-click for an immediate, precise strike.
   • Damage Output:
     • 80 damage if striking from behind.
     • 50 damage if striking the front/sides or missing the backstab.
   • Focuses on precision and stealth, rewarding players with good positioning.

2. Lunge Attack (Charged Backstab):

   • Right-click and hold to charge a lunge attack.
   • Charging Mechanics:
     • Slows movement speed to walking pace during the charge.
     • Upon release, includes a small forward dash to extend reach.
   • Damage Output:
     • 320 damage if striking from behind.
     • 50 damage for missed backstabs or non-backstab hits.
   • Designed for high-risk, high-reward plays that demand careful planning and timing.

Balance Considerations

• Skill Ceiling:

  • Encourages mastery through precise positioning, timing, and decision-making.

• Risk vs. Reward:

  • Left-Click: Low-risk, consistent damage for straightforward engagements.
  • Right-Click: High-risk, high-reward mechanics that punish poorly timed or inaccurate heavy attacks.

• Teamplay Impact:

  • Rewards players who incorporate stealth and flanking tactics into their team strategy.

Why This Rework is Unique

This hybrid approach combines a dynamic melee system with strategic attack mechanics, delivering a balance of speed, precision, and calculated decision-making. The rework complements The Finals' fast-paced gameplay while offering a unique melee system that’s rewarding for players willing to invest in mastering the dagger’s potential.

[unborn frigate]

nah just allow dagger to be right click tapped

maybe with slightly less dmg 260-280ish

[lilac hemlock]

I already said I want and have a tap right-click in my proposal. do you read that?

[unborn frigate]

yes i did

what i meant to say is to keep the dmg (or slightly lessen it) while still being able to click as opposed to having to hold it

[lilac hemlock]

I think like... I feel that Embark is trying to change daggers that need to be charged before stabbing. or just tab and stab

[lilac hemlock]

And I love both. I am an OG player who loves taping right-click. But I understand why they pick charge right-click to backstab. just one tapping right click and blow enemy maybe it's too op for Embark Dev.

[lilac hemlock]

And now I finally realize

[lilac hemlock]

Why not both?

[unborn frigate]

thats what i meant in my first message but didn't write it correctly in the second

[lilac hemlock]

Yeah just make it hybrid. and make people have a different choice on using the dagger

[lilac hemlock]

But for my instant backstab, I think I want just only 80 dmg. from the first start. for an OG player, tapping right-click with 80 DMG is enough for me. maybe less lethal but trust in player talent.

[lilac hemlock]

It means you want when you during charge dagger. and you release the dagger before fully charging. you want a dagger that can hit an enemy although it not fully charged right? just lower DMG than 320 dmg. maybe 260-280

[unborn frigate]

yes? cant really understand what your saying

[lilac hemlock]

sry, I mean you want a dagger that can attack people although it's not fully charged right?

[unborn frigate]

yes

[lilac hemlock]

That's interesting.

[lilac hemlock]

I've noticed that the development team at Embark seems to have been experimenting with the dagger's mechanics throughout various patches. It feels like there's been some back-and-forth about whether the right-click (backstab) should work as an instant tap for immediate execution or require charging before use. Both approaches have their pros and cons, and I understand the team’s efforts to find the right balance.

The instant tap backstab is incredibly satisfying—it gives that "stealth assassin" vibe and feels unique compared to other weapons. However, I understand why it might seem overpowered in its current form. On the other hand, requiring a charge for the backstab adds balance but takes away some of the distinct fun and identity of playing with the dagger. It feels similar to the sword, which also relies on a charge mechanic.

For me, the dagger’s charm is its fast-paced, "tag-you’re-it" style of gameplay, where you're chasing enemies and quickly striking from behind. I enjoy both systems, which got me thinking: Why not combine the two?

Here's the idea: Keep both mechanics! Allow players to use an instant tap for a backstab, but limit its damage to 80. It won’t be as lethal, but it’s enough for skilled players to showcase their dagger mastery without feeling overpowered. For those who want the full 320 damage, they’d still need to charge the attack before landing the backstab. This way, we find a middle ground that caters to both the fun, fast-paced OG dagger gameplay and the need for balance in competitive play.

It’s a fair trade-off—less lethality for the instant tap, but still a chance to deliver high-damage charged strikes when precision and timing are right. What do you think? Would this hybrid approach work for everyone?

[fickle radish]

Takes like 5 bullets to shoot it, is not that hard. I'm not saying that is the most easy thing to do, but it has counters

[plucky spade]

i never had problems with c&s either as heavy, med, or light. Honestly if you're running light with anything other than cloak you got a major skill issue or he got the drop on you and for med you got stuff like demat, jumppad, riot shield and dual blades i think?

[tranquil torrent]

https://tenor.com/view/xbox-ahoy-black-ops-1-china-lake-aqua-x-raln-gif-5750758003815555482

[slate imp]

Is there a bug or nerf to bow from s4? It feels way off and noticeably longer to draw back

[hazy spoke]

could we please start a petition for a sniper buff

[stable plume]

A magic 8 ball skin for the vanish bomb would fix all of my problems

[hazy spoke]

lets just each write a message in the feedback channel if everyone does this W

[static lodge]

you cant block c&s with dual blades what are you on about

Also the problem with C&S is that it does damage even if the heavy is right next to you when he starts charging, you cant react to that, thats just an instant 130 dmg.

there's absolutely 0 time between activation and damage and thats dumb, it should do no/minimal damage in the first lets say 0.7 seconds

[plucky spade]

I thought that since dbs block hammer hits it would block c&s too
Tbh it already has that 0.7s activation delay where the heavy braces

[static lodge]

It can block melee but IG that charge and slam is more of an AOE thing
(I havent played heavy in a while but last time I got C&Sed it was very much instant and I saw no patch notes about changes, maybe it looks like he braces but in reality he can already do damage)

[humble dirge]

how viable is revolver for ranked and WT

[plucky spade]

Either way as any other class being in close range to a heavy means death either way sooo

[modern jay]

what if being defibed respawned you at the 'normal' spawn instead of the statue

you aren't at the fight so defib chaining is impossible, and you arent a threat to anyone so half health, low ammo, hologram, respawn sickness aren't needed to balance it out

you could even add some extra mechanic like the longer your respawn timer when you got defibed the further away you spawn

also rewards good movement and map awareness to get back to the fight as fast as possible

[ocean kernel]

NEW SRB SHOOTY is l

[narrow nymph]

Is the lockbolt bugged? I had multiple players run away, or jump down from a roof or platform without issues, the lines between the anchor point and player becoming very long. Or is the maximum range trapped players have just incredibly wide?

[sacred cypress]

Honestly I must commend embark for doing such a fantastic job on the SHAK-50. The gun feels really good but isn't broken at all. I just really wish the scope attachment matched the color of the gun skin OR atleats give selectable colors for the attachments. It would make the gun PERFECT.

[upbeat kite]

Day 1 of asking for a x2 headshot multiplier for bow

[hazy spoke]

buff sniper first

[cyan bobcat]

Medium weapon concept: repeating crossbow
❓Semi auto crossbow.
🩸Dmg: 48, 96 headshots. | dmg falloff start: 20m, max falloff: 27m (-45% dmg)
🔥Rpm limit: 120 (2 bolts/s)
🎯Aimed accuracy: good, hip-fire accuracy: bad
🏹Bolt speed: 150m/s
⤵️Bolt falls: faster than Bow's
Magazine capacity: 8 bolts
👁️Sights available: acog and ironsights, maybe red dot too.

Thoughts?

[crude leaf]

If we were to ever have a medieval season, I'd definitely wish for a Crossbow on Medium or Heavy

[cyan bobcat]

I first thought it would go on heavy but then i realized it would be for longer than 15m fights and thats why i switched it to medium

[deep grove]

Real

Although all id want changed is the damage falloff, its already difficult enough to land shots over 100m, unless they stand still which at that point it's their fault for eating a headshot

[plain wasp]

They would just run back in and defib again, and again, and again and again, and again

[hasty juniper]

anything is viable if you are good. hell, people make riot shield viable

[vast crest]

I agree ^

[vast crest]

The sights make the revolver much more usable imo

[tardy briar]

Embark, fantastic work on the SHAK-50, but please don’t rush to produce new weapons. Too many weapons and balance goes to crap or there really isn’t any difference between the guns. I’d rather limited weapon choices but all of them are quality.

[hasty juniper]

tbh i prefer irons, but i haven’t played s5 revolver, and i just like the look of the gun without the sight

[toxic plover]

Need it for midevil season next season

[hazy spoke]

the weapon doesnt have damage falloff

give us either a huge buff in

damage

or

firerate

[deep grove]

It has 25% falloff after 100m, starting at 80m. At least that's what the wiki says

[vast crest]

That's fair. I also like the look without the sights, but I perform much better with the sights personally so I need them 😅

[hazy spoke]

never experienced this and i have 1000 hours sniper only but maybe i just forgot bc ive never landed such a high range shot again after the hitscan change

[hardy dust]

Sniper has falloff starting from 80m

[prime coral]

I mean, what sight line are you holding in this game that is longer than 80 meters???

[zinc kiln]

What makes c4 so good? I always see people talk about how it's meta and everyone should use it but after nukes got deleted I don't see why you would use it over barricade or something else.

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/crane-construction-construction-crane-skyscraper-gif-11749235

[restive plover]

Remote steal interruption is the big one. You put it on the cashout, knock it over, and if anyone comes near it you blow it up. Doesn't matter how far away you are.

It also still does hefty damage(155 max) and is useful for general destruction.

[vale obsidian]

can it do more then only interrupting steal?

[restive plover]

Well obviously, but that's the reason it's still hard meta.

[vale mulch]

If you panic RPG your c4 it does 100 + 155 damage

[zinc kiln]

So if I'm defending a cashout would it be better to place it above a doorway and try rpg it or should I dunk it under the cashout and play more defensively? Also how should I use it for attacking?

[prime coral]

I probably wouldn’t use C4 to attack. Except to make holes in walls or floors.

C4 is great for stopping a steal because the moment you hear the steal start, you just blow it up and likely get a free kill.

[zinc kiln]

Nukes are still nerfed into the ground right?

[covert parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/phantom-forces-gif-18794087

[hallow current]

What's a new weapon they can add for the Light class?

[vale mulch]

Spud gun

[hallow current]

Vector:
Suppressed
Larger magazine
Very high Rate of Fire
Low damage per bullet
Low recoil

[wraith prism]

Is spear good for comp?

[young lava]

Its meta 💯

[hallow current]

Play light class instead

[wraith prism]

You fucking donkey, my build is called light be gone,

[timber sparrow]

Use shak + winch

😋

[charred snow]

xp-54 or m11 pls someone help me choose

[wraith prism]

M11 is for no skill meta slaves so xp-54

[charred snow]

im on xbox :(

[timber sparrow]

M11 hater

[charred snow]

probally m11 but xp-54 seems fun

the cloak buff might help

[weak kernel]

machine pistols with big can suppressors are cool and M11 was always more fun than the MP5 even when the MP5 was way better

so M11

[hard pewter]

XP is a M11 with lower RPM, less bullet and same dmg. So M11

[restive plover]

M11 is not even meta though.

[vale mulch]

The mosquito weapon

[wraith prism]

It is

[restive plover]

It's not.

[timber sparrow]

light meta? Good one

might be the first season light is in the meta 😭

[restive plover]

Lh1, double barrel, m26 and now 93r are all better.

[wraith prism]

Light isn’t, but m11 is the meta gun in light

(Besides maybe the new 93R buff)

[timber sparrow]

I honestly dont think the m26 all that, lh1 and 93r for sure tho

lh1 will be the dominant meta pick for light

[restive plover]

M26 is the best gun in hml triple shotgun, outside of that it's just alright.

[wraith prism]

Medium AK and turret is the meta meta as fucking always

[restive plover]

I think you misspelled 1887 heal beam.

[timber sparrow]

turret isnt meta its just a mosquito

[wraith prism]

Yeah it’s free site if u stack 3 turrets

[timber sparrow]

I dont see the vision but ill take your word for it

[vale mulch]

Cloak matter is really fun if you learn the playstyle

[restive plover]

Unless you move the cashout (which all three classes are capable of doing) and then the turret team just has no specializations at all.

[timber sparrow]

I guess if ur stacking burst damage it would be good

[restive plover]

Or use glitch grenades. Or goo. Or shoot the turrets from beyond their range.

[timber sparrow]

Def falls flat on its own tho

[weak kernel]

I think it's the better range than double barrel and sustained fire with the big mag, you can just keep oppressing and peppering people while the medium provides chunkier single hits and the heavy deletes anyone who gets too close

[timber sparrow]

Mosquito gun

[vale mulch]

Ok should winch go through mesh?

[restive plover]

Winch shouldn't be in the game.

[vale mulch]

Why not

[restive plover]

Unfathomably stupid pick ability.

[timber sparrow]

Sa12 winch sa12

[weak kernel]

winch single handedly makes hammer feel viable after Heavy's nerfs over time so I'm obligated to be in favor of it

[timber sparrow]

Shak50 is disgusting with winch

[wraith prism]

Cap it’s just skill

[weak kernel]

if you removed winch as heavy currently is hammer would evaporate

[restive plover]

And now that lockbolt exists and is intentionally able to move cash outs there is no longer a viable rework angle.

[wraith prism]

All melees are useless without winch, also lock bolt can’t move stuff the same way, just prevents movement

[weak kernel]

put the bolt on a chair or something

[restive plover]

Me when I instantly kill someone off a full stun after they got within 12 meters of me a single time (high skill gameplay).

[weak kernel]

and be amazed

[timber sparrow]

the stun gun rant incoming

[wraith prism]

It’s not a full stun it’s half a second, also I only use it with melees it’s nothing on stun gun, plus just run away after?? Or shoot me while your dragged?

[restive plover]

Melee doesn't even matter here. It's the same shit with every heavy weapon.

[timber sparrow]

shak50 and sa12 with winch

[wraith prism]

No? You can just fight back, it just closes the gap for both partys nobody can shoot first over the other

[timber sparrow]

the winch stun will win you the fight first

[weak kernel]

i still think winch should be able to snag friendlies even if they're still alive so you can save people that way

[restive plover]

Full stun = fully inactionable. You CAN'T shoot them while being dragged, or for a short time afterwards. You're also dragged not just into the heavy, but into his team as well. Unless all three of them are asleep at the wheel escape is practically impossible.

[timber sparrow]

The trolling specialization

[wraith prism]

Life weaver flashbacks

[weak kernel]

look there's plenty of ways to grief in this game, I don't think one more is going to break it

[restive plover]

Stun gun doesn't compare to winch at all.

[wraith prism]

Use movement, utility or don’t be out of position, ur comments are invalid moving on

[restive plover]

Lol

[timber sparrow]

you cant lol

[wraith prism]

Avg no skill light, stun gun is just better winch

[weak kernel]

Questionable

[timber sparrow]

Dash only tool that can escape it but even then you’ll usually die before the stun ends

[wraith prism]

I’m done arguing with yall winch js fine it’s just balanced stun gun,

[restive plover]

Medium, actually. And no not at all. Stun gun might* fuck you up if you're already out of position, sure. Winch forces you out of position.

The might here being if the light is with his team. If he's not and opens with stun gun, shoot him and win.

[timber sparrow]

stun gun also doesnt remove your access to weapons for a period of time so if you react fast enough youll still beat the light

[restive plover]

He sold his first shot opportunity to annoy you.

[wraith prism]

It does, they just stun gun, move out of your range while holding left click and win

[wraith prism]

Let me guess AK?

[restive plover]

Lights when they must cover 35 meters to get out of my range after stunning me within 15 (I have the fcar)

[vale mulch]

Akm should have slightly less damage but 42 bullets

[timber sparrow]

Theres no world where stun gun is better than winch

[wraith prism]

Cap, it removes all ability to fight back and is a free kill winch just helps setup dmg

[vale mulch]

The light ending up all over the floor because he opened the fight with stun

[weak kernel]

lights when they stun a medium (there is no further action, assault rifle vs light TTK beats any of your possible followups, die)

[restive plover]

More damage, 36 bullets, but less range.

[wraith prism]

Not talking medium

[timber sparrow]

I dont even like bringing stun gun, i dont think its a must pick

[vale mulch]

Nah, I think akm should be different from fcar

[wraith prism]

True, ars need to be different from each other

[weak kernel]

light has so many good gadgets that stun is good and does good things but it doesn't at all feel obligate anymore

[timber sparrow]

Yeah

[wraith prism]

That’s fair

[vale mulch]

Stun should be used to sabotage your teammates opponent

[restive plover]

Fcar should also be reworked.

[timber sparrow]

I prefer to bring frags over it

[restive plover]

And less range does move it further away from fcar.

[vale mulch]

Fcar should focus on quick, high damage while akm is generally lower but can sustain dps for way longer

[timber sparrow]

Whats the thoughts on the shak50

[wraith prism]

Imo stun gun is the stronger pick over winch for 1 reason, the ability to fight back, in my personal experience the second I get stun gunned the light backpedals and holds left click, destroying my hp bar, while I am left with no counter option, whereas winch claw I simply bring the fight closer that’s it, I isolate a 1v1 or I pull someone away from chasing my teammate with box, that’s it, it (in my experience) has never been a 100% kill tool. That’s it

[wraith prism]

It’s good but once the hype dies down it’ll be fine

[timber sparrow]

winch shak50 beats stun any day ngl

[wraith prism]

Well yes ofc, that is using a ranged option

[timber sparrow]

Those free headshots incinerate health bars

[wraith prism]

True, I can’t comment on that though as I do not use ars/lmgs

[timber sparrow]

well thats why you think winch is worse than stun

Winch with the lmgs/ars is a night and day difference

[wraith prism]

Again from my personal experience it is, I use spear and slug as my main guns, stun gun completely removes a chance to fight back as spear

[timber sparrow]

well spear is probably the worst weapon in the game now

[wraith prism]

Rip

[timber sparrow]

Dual blades might be worse tho

[vale mulch]

Don't diss spear

[wraith prism]

True (that’s my main medium weapon)

[timber sparrow]

Its just true im sorry

[vale mulch]

It might be the most ass garbage stupid thing but it's my favorite weapon

[wraith prism]

Same, but he’s right

[vale mulch]

Imagine they buff spear 🤩

[wraith prism]

I just think it needs like .5 more range, then I’ll be happy

[timber sparrow]

Spears biggest problem is it has to compete with sledgehammer

[wraith prism]

and ofc some way to counter backpedaling, cuz holding S and LMB counters everything I have, even if I use winch and lock

Okay ima go have a good day yall

[vale mulch]

I've been on a sledgehammer massacre with winch spear

Spear just doesn't do enough damage,it should 2 shots lights

[vale veldt]

Make fcar good

[vale mulch]

When are they adding throwing sledgehammers

[wind folio]

today

[cosmic oriole]

Some silly skin concepts tonight, what do y'all think? (art by me)

Throwing Knives "Werm" - Cardistry theme (based on season 1's '52 pickup skin')

M11 "Arcade Ace" - retro theme (based on arcadey claw machines and season 2 theme)

Fuji Fracture bundle - Dual blades/dagger knives with a special spinning animation (like a karambit)

[royal pier]

They...they literally buffed it.

Also, it can actually out-DPS sledgehammer if you combo properly.

[timber sparrow]

Still worse imo i know it got buffed

[royal pier]

Don't compare it to sledgehammer, it has a different role. It punishes closely grouped together enemies way better since the sledgehammer nerf.

[timber sparrow]

Agree to disagree

[royal pier]

They also made the spin 105 damage, which decreased ttk against Medium and Heavy.

[royal pier]

I was top-fragging in mid Plat before the buff. I probably coulda gotten to diamond with it, but I didn't care about the weapon reward.

[timber sparrow]

Okay agree to disagree

you can like it and have your own opinion its alr 👍

[royal pier]

You can too, but you not liking a weapon doesn't make it bad.

[timber sparrow]

i genuinely think its bad

[cosmic oriole]

Which weapon

[timber sparrow]

spear

[cosmic oriole]

I've only tried it a few times so idc if what makes it good or bad

[lofty sky]

I really dont like the fact that the v9s has such a large mag, range, fare rate and dps, the same with the lh1. compared to revolver who has really bad range, one of the worst dmg per mag it seems unnfair. I understand the lights are easier to kill and therfore need weapons that compansate but this just feels unnfair somhow. I am also just salty rn

[timber sparrow]

Revolver needs love

[lofty sky]

I love it with all my heart and body

[inner haven]

Medium needs octane adrenaline for like a 5-7 sec movement boost so the melee weapons in the class are actually viable

[plucky spade]

me when teamplay exists:

[keen turtle]

Dagger is fun to play with cloak since the changes

[dim carbon]

Mesh shield feels great now

[mystic nimbus]

yeah

just make winch not go through it

[opal bone]

can we finally get cringe and slam nerfed?

[lament ginkgo]

I like them

[minor perch]

Uwu

[lament ginkgo]

should probably share them on #1075060148004991067

nvm I already noticed the post

[royal pier]

The linear scaling damage was terrible for the MGL32. It made the outer range of its splash damage basically worthless.

I'd propose lower the overall range of the splash damage, while making the damage delt always be the same. If you get a hitmarker, you know how much damage it did.

Currently, it does 83 damage. This makes it a 4 shot kill vs Medium. Making the damage 84 would make it a 3 shot kill.

Considering this suggestion makes the overall range less than before, and the generally high DPS that Medium has (specifically still only needing 3 1887 shots to kill), it might be worth trying.

[bronze dust]

dang!

[magic knoll]

This a good SR loadout?

[shut bane]

Not too sure how I feel about thermal bore tbh but I guess you could use it to open up sight lines to cash outs

I’d run taser for how good it is but this is a respectable build

[runic grail]

i wish they could see the thing you get from the sniper skin that shows your crosshair when you killed them

[toxic plover]

Good loadout

[toxic plover]

I like it.

[magic knoll]

Maybe swap out vanish? Haven't gotten good use out of it given that I have grapple already

[toxic plover]

Vanish is there for when your grapple is on cooldown

Or you get caught in the open, vanish, then use grapple hook to repostion

[dawn swan]

no

[royal pier]

FAMAS and 93r are now both overtuned.

The problem is that the burst allows for all 3 shots to be headshots, and you only have to be on target at the moment you fire. You don't have to really compensate.

[hardy dust]

Famas maybe but 93r is in a good spot rn.

[royal pier]

It's basically the FAMAS (but in some cases better) on Light.

[timber sparrow]

Its famas if famas had no range and even better hipfire

[hardy dust]

No way light has better weapons than medium 🤯

And before s5 famas was a straight upgrade, so having 93r actually be better in some cases is good.

Famas is overtuned, but 93r is fine rn.

[timber sparrow]

i think both are fine rn personally

[toxic plover]

Alright guys imma come up with 3 new gadgets for next seasons midevil themed season

[faint steppe]

Yeah, both are fine. 93r isn't even the best light weapon and all medium ARs are pretty much equal.

[timber sparrow]

Agreed but buff fcar pls

🥲

[faint steppe]

I also prefer it over burst. But difficult to balance probably. Pre nerfs it was easily without competition (compared to AK/FAMAS). And just smoothing the recoil wouldn't help much.

[fast cedar]

Please add the PKM or MG42 for the heavy class

[restive plover]

It makes the other two rifles options completely obsolete. Partially because they both suck, but also because famas is too good up close for the rifle with the longest range.

[sand monolith]

Famas is kinda okay

Buff AKM mag size and buff FCAR damage to 23. Maybe slightly nerf time between bursts for famas

[wind lintel]

famas is above average

[sand monolith]

Yes but partially because the other rifles suck

The should be slightly brought up and the famas should be slightly brought down. None of them need huge changes

[wind lintel]

its excels at peaks

[sand monolith]

What

[steel tartan]

Feels weird seeing my own name

[pallid palm]

Just bought the alien pistol for light v95 i think? Anyone think its any good or should i just use the m11

[steel tartan]

Nah use the v95

[pallid palm]

Okay

[shut bane]

v9s is very good, I prefer it over the m11 personally

ok get this, we get to place as many stickers on weapon models as we want and wherever we want

[toxic plover]

Use XP

[pallid palm]

What about the 93r

[toxic plover]

That shit is ass. Less range and you have to repeatedly click

[pallid palm]

Oh okay lol

[timber sparrow]

Its very good rn actually

they major buffed it

[limber gull]

New Heavy Ability
https://tenor.com/view/power-rangers-mighty-morphin-human-chain-spinning-gif-19225711

[toxic plover]

Okay time for y'all to see what I was gonna post for the midevil season

[topaz orchid]

Nobody asked

[toxic plover]

Medium

Weapon-crossbow 85 damage. Infinite ammo, slower fire rate

Light

Weapon- vials
Right click to mix them(changes element)
Left click to throw.

Heavy

Weapon-greatsword

Gadget-greatshield
Functions like a barricade that is a little thinner but stays in your hand. 5 second cooldown when switching off of it.

[toxic plover]

But you are gonna listen

[topaz orchid]

Nah I tuned out after slower fire rate medium weapon. Trash L take

[fleet brook]

Seems like light got the only interesting/ dynamic weapon no offense

Crossbow would be better if it also healed

[toxic plover]

Sure I like that idea

[topaz orchid]

Make it a repeater crossbow and it's not buttcheeks

[fleet brook]

It's just from tf2

[topaz orchid]

Everything is from tf2

[fleet brook]

Medics crossbow damaged and healed

[toxic plover]

Then it'll already have a demographic that will like it

[topaz orchid]

Jarate when?

[toxic plover]

I'm biased as fuck and want a repeater crossbow gadget for heavy 😈😈😈 requires a reload and Regen

[shut bane]

cerberus is a straight up db for medium lol'

the best movement weapon for mediums for sure

[toxic plover]

GUTS BUILDDDD

[topaz orchid]

Lol so creative.

[toxic plover]

CnS, great sword,RPG,Rcrossbow, frag

I would do winch though

[topaz orchid]

Feeling adventurous today, are we?

[toxic plover]

Very.

[weary eagle]

Actually your supposed to be able to but it work maybe 2% of the time

Jinko tested this, it 100% blocks it under the best of conditions, but in reality, just like the lights swords lunge it gets fucked up by the server desync

I can confirm I just blocked one charge and slam hit only to get pummled with the next 3

[weary eagle]

https://youtu.be/SQHIHUekA60?t=336

[shy mauve]

.

[unborn frigate]

this video is outdated

[weary eagle]

Oh?

[unborn frigate]

its 5months old

[weary eagle]

OK but that doesn't change how it interacts with other weapons, unless your saying the devs secretly nerfed or changed the dual blades? I've been using them since release and its always worked that way against charge and slam

[hallow leaf]

I hate videos like this because they are very misleading when it comes to blocking melee, if you are too close they don't block shit

[weary eagle]

I find movement messes it up the most, like if the enemy is sliding or moving towards you, especially sledge heavies, it breaks the hitbox

[hallow leaf]

Still the video and every other video only show when it works and 99% of the time it doesn't

[weary eagle]

Yeah I mean, its in a controlled test environment

[hallow leaf]

And the sliding causes themto get too close and at that point they don't block

[weary eagle]

Worst case is the dash lights

[hallow leaf]

They basically block if you are 3-6m from the enemy but if you are 0-2 m close to them it's not blocking shit

It honestly needs changed or fixed to block at any close range

[weary eagle]

You can give up blocking them, I've had my dual blades pointed at a corner a light dasher rounds it with his right click and hits me for full damage

[hallow leaf]

And the most annoying thing I find with the dual blades is when they buffed them they didn't buff their damage

At the very least the last attack needs doubled to be on par with the first two parts of the combo or make every attack in the combo do 60x2

[weary eagle]

Idk what the counter is for the lights with swords, I mean my counter is to either goo them or let my teammates take care of it

[hallow leaf]

Hell the riot shield has more consistent damage and doesn't punish you for finishing the combo (mind you riot doesn't have a combo but still)

I have just accepted the fact that the dual blades will never be visible since the devs seem to hate them, I would rather them remove the dual blades and replace them with something they will actually make usable

[shut bane]

Dual blades really could have used an attack speed buff tbh

[hallow leaf]

They need a damage buff

[shut bane]

But then they’d just wipe riot shield off the floor if they could three tap a medium I think

[hallow leaf]

Yes an attack speed buff would be nice but a damage buff is what they need they shouldn't punish you for finishing the combo

[hallow leaf]

If they buff the last attack it won't effect the amount of hits needed to kill lights or medium

[weary eagle]

They already wipe the floor with the riot shield

[shut bane]

That’s up for debate TBH

@hallow leaf maybe

[weary eagle]

Its 2 hits and a qm for a medium, the shield can't block it effectively

[hallow leaf]

It literally won't

[weary eagle]

Its one of the easiest weapons to face as a dual blades user tbh

[hallow leaf]

And both riot and dual blades deserve a passive movement speed buff

Since medium will never get a stun or slowing gadget, those are reserved for light and heavy only apparently

Or make dual blades and riot attacks apply a slow

Or makes riot apply a slow or stun effect with a stun baton and make dual blades apply a bleed damage over time

[shut bane]

Can’t make ‘em too obnoxious now, but a movement speed change would be nice

[vale obsidian]

that would be canser af
movement speed is enough

[lilac hemlock]

( Please overlook my poor video editing and try to understand what I'm trying to convey.)

Dagger Rework Proposal

This rework introduces a refined melee combat system, balancing consistency, risk, and reward to make the dagger a high-skill, high-impact tool for stealth-oriented gameplay. The goal is to enhance depth while maintaining balance for both casual and competitive players.

Mechanics Overview

Left-Click (Quick Attack)

• Functions as it currently does in The Finals.
• Damage: Fixed at 50 per hit, with no bonus damage for attacking from behind.
• Delivers quick, reliable attacks, ideal for steady DPS.

Right-Click (Special Heavy Attack)
Introduces two distinct mechanics:

1. Heavy Stab (Instant Backstab):

   • Triggered by tapping right-click for an immediate, precise strike.
   • Damage Output:
     • 80 damage if striking from behind.
     • 50 damage if striking the front/sides or missing the backstab.
   • Focuses on precision and stealth, rewarding players with good positioning.

2. Lunge Attack (Charged Backstab):

   • Right-click and hold to charge a lunge attack.
   • Charging Mechanics:
     • Slows movement speed to walking pace during the charge.
     • Upon release, includes a small forward dash to extend reach.
   • Damage Output:
     • 320 damage if striking from behind.
     • 50 damage for missed backstabs or non-backstab hits.
   • Designed for high-risk, high-reward plays that demand careful planning and timing.

Balance Considerations

• Skill Ceiling:

  • Encourages mastery through precise positioning, timing, and decision-making.

• Risk vs. Reward:

  • Left-Click: Low-risk, consistent damage for straightforward engagements.
  • Right-Click: High-risk, high-reward mechanics that punish poorly timed or inaccurate heavy attacks.

• Teamplay Impact:

  • Rewards players who incorporate stealth and flanking tactics into their team strategy.

Why This Rework is Unique

This hybrid approach combines a dynamic melee system with strategic attack mechanics, delivering a balance of speed, precision, and calculated decision-making. The rework complements The Finals' fast-paced gameplay while offering a unique melee system that’s rewarding for players willing to invest in mastering the dagger’s potential.

[soft juniper]

Should Glitch grenade be impact no mater what?

[hazy spoke]

no really a fan since its already fine, but if we add a right click tap, why 80 damage? this wouldnt change any ttk without using melee. 100 damage would make more sense.

[lilac hemlock]

Yeah, maybe 100 dmg is good. But I feel like. if we add with 100 dmg. Maybe it's too op for some people? That's why I think just bring right-click tap back. With 80 dmg, maybe it's less lethal. But If you talent enough. You can make tapping 80 DMG to be come dangerous tool to other players

[lilac hemlock]

And, if you really want 320 dmg, need to hold right click first. And stand by for backstab.

[lilac hemlock]

Against light build: 2 tapping hit to get 160 DMG and kil

Against Medium build: 3 tapping Hit(240 DMG) + 1 quick melee to kill

Against Heavy build: 4 tapping hit(320 DMG) + 1 Quick melee to kill (It's make people think about you gonna 4 instant backstab and quick melee to kill or charging backstab to get 320 DMG and quick Melee to kill)

[lilac hemlock]

But, Overall no matter how dmg we will get from tap right click. I think add instant Backstab to be a third option for dagger player. It's gonna be a great choice for dagger player

[lilac hemlock]

This rework proposal introduces instant backstab as a third option for dagger users, adding much-needed versatility and diversity to how the weapon can be played across different builds. By giving players more strategic choices, it makes the dagger adaptable to various playstyles without leaning too heavily into one mechanic.

For Light builds, players now have three clear options:

Three quick left-click attacks for consistent, low-risk damage.

Two right-click taps (instant backstab) to secure quick bursts of damage.

One heavy charged attack for a big hit if they want to take a high-risk, high-reward approach.

For Medium builds, the options become even more strategic:

Choose between five quick hits to kill.

Use three hits + one quick melee for a smoother and faster takedown.

Or, opt for one fully charged right-click for a clean one-hit kill, depending on positioning. If the instant backstab tap has slightly higher damage, it could even enable three hits to kill for a faster outcome.

For Heavy builds, the flexibility continues:

Players can go for seven quick left-click attacks to finish a target.

Use four hits + one quick melee for a reliable takedown (or just four clean hits if the instant backstab damage is tuned higher).

Alternatively, combine one big charged hit + one quick melee for the fastest possible kill but with the highest risk.

Overall, this rework enhances versatility in gameplay. It allows dagger users to decide how to approach their targets based on the situation—whether they want to play aggressively, take calculated risks, or aim for quick, precise strikes. Sometimes, players might not want to spam left-click to follow up damage, nor do they want to charge every heavy hit beforehand. Instead, they may simply want to land a strong backstab hit instantly—not lethal, but enough for a hit-and-run tactic before disengaging. This keeps the dagger's identity intact as a unique, stealth-oriented weapon while ensuring it remains fun and rewarding to use.

[lilac hemlock]

As for the damage tuning for the instant backstab, that’s something that can still be adjusted. However, no matter the exact numbers, the required hits to down an enemy remain as follows:

Light: 2 hits

Medium: 3 hits (or 3 hits + a quick melee)

Heavy: 4 hits (or 4 hits + a quick melee)

[hazy spoke]

i dont think its realistic to go for 2 backstabs to output 160 damage instead of 50damage with a failed charged and 2 additional left klick slices. especially in high elo this wouldnt work since you almost never have the chance to try 2 stabs in one commit without dying. also 3x 80 backstab damage for medium wont ever happen in high elo. this change is too minor. 100 would be interesting tho

[lilac hemlock]

Deal, I'm okay with 100 dmg. But Let Embark decide about it. Just have a third option for instant Backstab that's enough for me.

[unique swallow]

Make defib spawn cooldown only affect to defib please thank you

[hazy spoke]

🫡

[vale obsidian]

nah keep it where it is

[hazy spoke]

ok guys i have the idea of my life

since embark doesnt want to buff the sniper. but it actually needs a buff bc its the worst light weapon rn,

here it comes…

MAKE THE TRACKINGDART DEAL 40 DAMAGE PER HIT

similar to double pump in fortnite, you will be able to finish the kill with the dart on light, heavy and medium.

but why 40 damage?

if we want to we could headshot a heavy, have 0 bullets left and instead of reloading we could finish with 3 darts, or we can hit a medium with our last bullet, hit 3 tracking darts and finish of with quick melee.

the tracking dart got buffed last season but still hasnt made it even close to be meta, since this buff would not only synergize with the sniper i think this would be THE PERFECT CHANGE to bring tracking dart in the meta

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/xqc-gambling-gamble-gambler-gambling-addiction-gif-25801242

[soft juniper]

Hey I thought of a cool Tool that could be a Gadget or Special
Respawn Anchor
Gadget method: a light Gadget that when placed will instantly respawn you at its placement but you must be within it range when you die in order to come back

Special method: A Medium special that places a Respawn point that everyone will respawn at when they Self respawn letting your team be able to rejoin the battle right near the objective

[vale obsidian]

wait so double tapping someone with track dart will be 80

[vale obsidian]

too powerful and unhealthy for the game imo
light is already too annoying for some people and then give them the kamakazi gatgid is.... yeah

[soft juniper]

Could be a heavy gadget too since they are slow I just thought something like this could really change up the game

That’s what I like to try and make are game changing tools

[vale obsidian]

after using this kamakazi gatgid it really should cut your max health in half for the duration of it

even then i feel like its too powerful

[plain wasp]

Make LH1 do 49 damage again so I can finish people off with tracking dart

[lilac hemlock]

Do you mean spawn beacon?

[soft juniper]

Yeah but a one time thing and only would work in a radius like the gateway

[plain wasp]

Old revenant ult

[hazy spoke]

my idea would be a revive turret that has a loud sound cue so everyone can notice and destroy it. to properly balance it you can adjust turret health and revive time

you can either throw the turret on a statue, or place the turret and throw a statue at it (which would enhance the cool throwing mechanic of the game)

[soft juniper]

That could work

And this would also make an interesting style of play too

[plain wasp]

So what do we do about triple turret triple revive turret triple aps teams

[hazy spoke]

triple revive turret wouldnt be a problem since only one can be active at a time and would probably be relatively easy to destry

(2 active at once is also possible but will probably be a very rare occasion

[plain wasp]

What is stopping 3 mediums from all using it

[fleet brook]

So that's a doc rev from apex

And you could balance it by either having it be a big target that can be shot or being able to shoot the trophy

That's how doc revive was balanced (and lifelong was bad ish) for awhile

[spring needle]

What is the best weapon for light (grapple,cloak,dash each)

[magic basin]

Depends on what weapons u run imo, i stopped playing during s2 and just recently came back for s5, i personally like using evasive dash paired w the pistol or either of the 2 smgs, but i have seen alot of people both in ranked & quick play using cloak. Cloak & shotty combo has always been a thing but been seeing alot of cloak/dash sword users, idk whats meta rn but i've seen teams of lights all running swords and if they know what they're doing they can easily drop a team

I won't tell you whether grapple is worth it or not, it has its uses obviously, but i don't run it & i rarely see other lights running it unless they're freshies

[plucky spade]

Why does the dagger need to be a confrontational weapon?

It's already the most annoying thing in the world for non light players ( lights have a shred of attention and dagger is a non-factor )

Also
League of Legends ass balance

[plain wasp]

I always use dash for the utility in escape, crossing gaps, and tracking down injured opponents like a bloodhound

[fleet brook]

Because light is the most played role in QP and embarks favorite

[plucky spade]

God damn it why must I see tf2 spy in this game as well

[topaz orchid]

Light is whack, mediums are the heart and soul of the finals! We get the revives! We get those tough steals! Not those goofy lights

[jade violet]

1887 still need more nerf

[prime coral]

Why call for nerfs when you can buff bad weapons to be on par with the good ones?

[vale mulch]

Because model is overpowered to the point where it's banned from some comp scenes, though buffing 93r seemed to be a very good change from embark

[prime coral]

So then options to counter the Model need a buff, which would at least to me be the Bubble Shield.

[vale mulch]

People want to play a shooter, not rock paper scissors

[prime coral]

Shooters are rock paper scissors

If you’re having trouble with a Model user, your Light should be running the LH1. The TTK of the LH1 is insane right now.

[plucky spade]

It's good now

I dont get it, the cerberus is the exact same thing just with less range, but you're able to 2 shot a guy and you call it underpowered because you gotta play close

[vale mulch]

Cerberus is going to be eternally b tier

If they buff it, well have another cl40

[hasty juniper]

cerberus needs more dmg imo. it’s got half the ammo of the model, but does less damage

[plucky spade]

But 2 shots mediums

Without the need to time your shots or anything

In the same time as model to be fair until fire damage ticks down and i'm not sure about medigun but for all intents and purposes that's it

[cyan bobcat]

Medium weapon concept: Steyr AUG
❓ The classic bullpup rifle but with an improved trigger
🩸 DMG: 23, 34 headshots | DMG falloff start: 38m, max falloff: 43m (-40% DMG)
🔥 RPM: 550 (100 less than irl for balance)
🎯 aimed accuracy: very good but worse than FAMAS, hip-fire accuracy: okay, a little worse than AKM
mag size: 30
recoil: starts as hard but after 2-4 rounds it settles
sights available: ACOG, red dot, iron sights

thoughts? i think it would just be another assault rifle for medium, basically just a FCAR/AKM clone
this was sort of requested by @lone cobalt

[lone cobalt]

More damage less rpm and could either be for heavy or medium

[cyan bobcat]

ill be back in a moment i got to eat sum

[lone cobalt]

I want a full auto pike basically

[outer fiber]

Gotta love me some bullpup rifles

[lone cobalt]

https://tenor.com/view/aug-springtime-gif-6663773143994069092

[faint steppe]

Do you think guys think the LH1 is overturned or in a good spot rn? I feel like most competitive lobbies run nothing but LH1 with the new cloak and due the decreased recoil it melts people insanely fast. I'm happy that light is finally in the meta rn but their current meta pick is really unfun to play against.

Also why the hell did they nuke the Pike? It's absolute garbage rn. Often times having a 0.5s higher ttk than the LH1 and not even a HS multiplier of 2x

[outer fiber]

imo the LH1 is fine as it is

Just that cloak is overtuned atm

[lone cobalt]

Fr

[outer fiber]

I'm a cloak main whenever I play light even though light is my least played and after the buff it's actually ridiculous how OP the mechanic for it is now

[crystal garnet]

Just make it so ADS makes it regular cloak effect and not the stand still one and increase the volume. Shouldn't be able to line up shots with no punishment with cloak

[outer fiber]

Or maybe whenever they ads the glitch sound effect is louder like whenever they're moving around

But even when they're standing still and ads onto u the glitch effect plays so at least they get a heads up or something

[deep grove]

Speaking of LH1 would it be better or worse to use as a sniper light than the SR-84?

I'm pretty decent with the SR but I'm curious if I'd just have a better time sniping with the LH1

[outer fiber]

Well it's personal preference really. Even after the SR-84 got that change with the bullet distance projectile I just played around with it for a bit and got used to it already

It did throw me off during the first couple games but once u get used to it it's pretty much just warzone sniper but u don't have to lead your shots as far as in that

[ornate tiger]

LH1 is usually going to be a better choice, it's considered S tier alongside the matter by high elo lights. the sniper is just way more limited especially if you're not using it aggressively and essentially point blank anyways

it's only a projectile above 50m and if you're sniping from that far you're probably not being very helpful

[deep grove]

So i assume it's a good flex option for QC/WT rather than being limited to long range with the SR (unless you're a movement god that can hipfire it well)

[fleet brook]

looks at most of the finals and it's just rock paper scissors

[outer fiber]

SR-84 is basically a high-risk high-reward gun

[ornate tiger]

yeah LH1 is super versatile bc it's very good at pretty much all ranges. it just has a very high skill ceiling and low skill floor so it's frustrating to learn, kind of like the SA12 for heavy

[fleet brook]

Also if I want to play a raw shooter I play cod I play this game for the gadgetry interacting with the gunplay and the gadgetry is rock paper scissors

With glitch nade resting on top of everything and winning

[warm gyro]

LH1 has always been good but now it’s just better because of the cloak and more people are using light, trust me I’ve been a LH1 main and I bet I’m an ass to play against but now we’re just seeing more people use it

[ornate tiger]

yeah the best part about this game is the strategy layer with all of the gadgets and movement system and destruction making positioning the most important thing

but nonetheless we still see so many lights playing like it's cod and making the game frustrating for everyone

[vale mulch]

Not fun!

[ornate tiger]

every single game is rock paper scissors

do you expect there to be no counters to anything? I don't get the complaint

[fleet brook]

Yes but I think the devs have designed alot of one button answer's they can't design themselves out of

[humble totem]

I like gassing people

[fleet brook]

For some reason people get two glitch grenades and people still don't recognize how great they are

[ornate tiger]

glitch grenades are super slept on outside of high elo

[lofty wing]

guys hear me out they should make gingerbreadmen throwing knifes with the inspect you taking a bite out of one

[fleet brook]

It also can counter alot of skillful play with a click of a button

[faint steppe]

I feel like red dot + less visual recoil also plays a role, no? I'm definitely not a LH1 main but headshots seem much more consistent now. But yeah, it seems like cloak is the root of the problem by letting you start most duels at an advantage

[cyan bobcat]

im back.

[ornate tiger]

I think a lot of people are just refusing to counter cloak now vs cloak being absurdly overpowered. I still rarely see people bringing thermal, prox sensors, or glitch traps

[deep grove]

Gingerbread bundle?

[ornate tiger]

but yeah red dot and visual recoil definitely helped with LH1 I refused to run it previously bc I'm a bad aimer

[faint steppe]

Definitely part of it. But can't really think about many other specs that force you into specific gadgets

[ornate tiger]

mesh or heal beam kind of encourage you into bringing glitch nades

[fleet brook]

Tbf with heavy you kinda need to dedicate your slots to defense/ gap closers depending on what you're running there's no space for prox sensors

[faint steppe]

You also won't have proxy in a lot of fights. And especially with the plug meta it's kinda mandatory to win your fights before the cashout

[lofty wing]

i saw it in this but I dont think they thought about a gingerbread throwing knife

[ornate tiger]

but yeah the cloak counters are kind of hard counters

I personally think we should have the ability to use reserve in ranked, it would add more strategy to the game

[deep grove]

The rolling pins for the dual swords is actually pretty funny I wish they made a pastry chef outfit to go with it

[cyan bobcat]

mesh shield skin but its a goo shield generator

[lofty wing]

fr fr

[faint steppe]

Definitely for mesh. Healing beam never really forced you as much into glitch nades. Also why last season light wasn't as mandatory as before when mesh dominated

[lofty wing]

but gingerbread throwing knifes would sell it!

[fleet brook]

The problem with this games are your counters just make whatever you're doing completely irrelevant most of the time Instead of just giving one side a minor to noticeable advantage in the encounter. Counters in the finals are more like you just can't stop that person if you're both of equal skill or in some cases (glitch nade) turning what you're doing off complet

[plain wasp]

That's probably rolling pin dual blades

[deep grove]

Given the cloak buff do you think glitch nades on medium would be a good change or no?

I'm on the fence about it when I think about it cause we already have glitch mine but idk

[fleet brook]

No

[lofty wing]

i think in the trailer it shower a frame of them using it as duals

[plain wasp]

How do glitch nades even help against cloak

[faint steppe]

I think glitch nades should remain light only. I don't expect the cloak change to last and a healthy meta should involve light

[fleet brook]

Glitch nades are balanced because light players think they have better options

[plain wasp]

How are you supposed to hit someone you can't see

[fleet brook]

I think light metas are dreadful personally

[ornate tiger]

the problem isn't that they counter it completely it's the relative level of effort required to be countered.

this is why glitch trap is banned in high elo scrims, it's a low effort no skill counter to everything

but a counter that requires some level of skill or good judgment to pull off is good game design, and I think embark is mostly good at this aspect. the gadgets mostly feel consequential and impactful

[deep grove]

Actually that made me realize they're probably so powerful on PS since you can shut down mesh heavies and mediums that set up 3 turrets on the platform

[faint steppe]

It feels too much right now but HML should be the gold standard

[deep grove]

Gotta start using them there then

[ornate tiger]

HML is finally the best team comp again thank fuck

[faint steppe]

Plug meta and overtuned cloak just make it feel unfun for me personally

[fleet brook]

Glitch nades are one of the best in game not just in PS

[deep grove]

Okay wtf is "plug meta" I've been hearing it all over the reddit

[lofty wing]

guys look what i spotted

[ornate tiger]

plug meta is the fact that you get a 30% bonus for depositing the cash box

[deep grove]

Oh for WT/Ranked?

[faint steppe]

Getting a lot of cash for plugging the box into the cashout. Making defenses pretty useless and encouraging players to mostly run around the map to get plugs. Something light excels at

[ornate tiger]

yeah it basically means that you should just be going for plugs, even leaving the cashout and letting it get stolen if you have a chance to get the 2nd vault plugged

[plain wasp]

Putting boxes in gives money so why not just put them in every time and get enough money to win

[fleet brook]

One button answers are common in the finals and the potency of said one button answers make me mad a counter on any game especially if you can't swap just feels like BS and even in siege before a couple of operations ago people could counter there counters with skill

This game has no "Bandit tricking" if you see you're counter chances are you're just losing to that person for the rest of the game

[faint steppe]

Also the fact that wipes are useless nowadays (only 10%). You get punished much less if you split and get wiped. All these things contribute to the plug meta imo

[mild wing]

What are the best medium options for this season in terms of guns/gadgets in your opinion?

[deep grove]

Wow that sounds terrible

Well now that I know about it it really does make the first 2 stages really easy cause if you start 3 cashouts and secure one you basically win unless you catastrophically fuck up

[plain wasp]

Blame the people who can't stand a last second steal

[faint steppe]

Early R6 was the goat of unique playstyles and counterplay

[ornate tiger]

there's a compelling reason that they added the plug meta but I didn't play early on so I forget why

but also light needs to have a purpose because light was just bad all of last season and not competitively viable at all

[plain wasp]

It was simply because people complained that they can defend the whole thing and it get stolen last second nullifies it

[ornate tiger]

it encourages this high risk high reward gameplay which I like

[lofty wing]

more things i spotted

[faint steppe]

Definitely. Like I said HML should always be the goal. I just feel like their current balancing seems very "forced".

[fleet brook]

Yes if I could "Bandit trick" my way out of someone picking the thing that counters me k wouldn't just be so enranged by them . If there was a twitch/ thatcher/(newer EMP ops) bandit could skillfully place his battery's as soon as the util went on the wall and deny entry

[deep grove]

Missed opportunity to make it a gingerbread nama tama charm

[ornate tiger]

it is a bit heavy handed bc light was so underpowered they may have overcorrected but we'll just have to see

Embark is very good at monitoring player retention and engagement so if it becomes a problem we'll see a change like with CL-40 and Pike last season

[mild wing]

Any opinion?

[lofty wing]

curious what these are tho

sorry its hard to see

[deep grove]

Looks like a hot sauce bottle skin for maybe gas grenade for the first one

[fleet brook]

Light is a class made to pub stomp forcing them into comp feels like a mistake

[deep grove]

2nd one looks like an outfit with a poncho but the 3rd one i can't even tell at all

[lofty wing]

like a Salsa Verde hot sauce

[deep grove]

Yeah

[ornate tiger]

well all of the competitive community was complaining about it

it's always going to be difficult to balance the experiences and feedback of the high level players and casuals

and I think it's stupid to have three classes but only have two of them used ever at all at the highest level of play just conceptually

[sturdy sand]

HHH is God's team comp

[deep grove]

Pretty thematically fitting given hot sauce and it's fumes burn the shit out of your eyes

[faint steppe]

Yes, it also doesn't help that currently most buildings are made out of paper. Would be interesting to slow down the destruction a bit and give us more unique counters and actually viable defense playstyles

[lofty wing]

literally pepper spray lol

[faint steppe]

Only if all of you run Charge. It's basically like football but your enemies are the balls

[lofty wing]

but i mean christmas is in a week from tomorrow so they gotta add the rolling pins then right?

icicle dagger and peppermint candy cane sword would be fire!!!!

and snowball frag

snowman motion sensor would also be awesome

[lofty wing]

the iceikill bundle

[shell sonnet]

My best guess
Durian lemonade gas grenade skin
And mini rocket throwing knives for new years

[deep grove]

If i could post images I'd post the "Absolute Cinema" in reply to this

[lofty wing]

i was thinking that the 3rd was a rocket of some sort

[deep grove]

That outfit in the 2nd pic could maybe include a spear skin by the look of it

Or is that a pike?

[lofty wing]

https://tenor.com/view/me-atrapaste-es-cine-its-cinema-cinema-esto-es-cine-gif-17729711691959966457

[deep grove]

Epic embed fail

[lofty wing]

that didnt work lol

here

[deep grove]

I think you need to be qualified role to post gifs

[lofty wing]

i guess for this channel

[cyan bobcat]

this song fire

[lilac hemlock]

Updated Dagger Rework Proposal

This rework introduces a refined melee combat system, balancing consistency, risk, and reward to make the dagger a high-skill, high-impact tool for stealth-oriented gameplay. The goal is to enhance depth while maintaining balance for both casual and competitive players.

Mechanics Overview

Left-Click (Quick Attack)

• Functions as it currently does in The Finals.
• Damage: Fixed at 50 per hit, with no bonus damage for attacking from behind.
• Delivers quick, reliable attacks, ideal for steady DPS.

Right-Click (Special Heavy Attack)
Introduces two distinct mechanics:

1. Heavy Stab (Instant Backstab):

   • Triggered by tapping right-click for an immediate, precise strike.
   • Damage Output:
     • 100 damage if striking from behind.
     • 50 damage if striking the front/sides or missing the backstab.
   • Focuses on precision and stealth, rewarding players with good positioning.

2. Lunge Attack (Charged Backstab):

   • Right-click and hold to charge a lunge attack.
   • Charging Mechanics:
     • Slows movement speed to walking pace during the charge.
     • Upon release, includes a small forward dash to extend reach.
   • Damage Output:
     • 320 damage if striking from behind.
     • 50 damage for missed backstabs or non-backstab hits.
   • Designed for high-risk, high-reward plays that demand careful planning and timing.

Balance Considerations

• Skill Ceiling:

  • Encourages mastery through precise positioning, timing, and decision-making.

• Risk vs. Reward:

  • Left-Click: Low-risk, consistent damage for straightforward engagements.
  • Right-Click: High-risk, high-reward mechanics that punish poorly timed or inaccurate heavy attacks.

• Teamplay Impact:

  • Rewards players who incorporate stealth and flanking tactics into their team strategy.

Why This Rework is Unique

This hybrid approach combines a dynamic melee system with strategic attack mechanics, delivering a balance of speed, precision, and calculated decision-making. The rework complements The Finals' fast-paced gameplay while offering a unique melee system that’s rewarding for players willing to invest in mastering the dagger’s potential.

[cyan bobcat]

definetly more than worthy of going to #👂┇game-feedback

[lilac hemlock]

Okay, I will check it out.

[arctic fog]

Those are hot sauce gas grenades and also an RPG skin that is a firework launcher

[shell sonnet]

Imo hot sauce gas grenade doesnt really fit

Hot sauce makes much more sense for pyro

Hence why i thought durian gas nade
But that is a bit extra

But i think it could be either

[ashen hawk]

Get me freeze grenades, freeze mines and freeze barrels
cant believe it hasnt been added yet, its kinda obv

also pyro related gadgets should be a counter to these freeze related items, but when the fire counters the freeze it should create a pool of water that makes it slippery

[hollow galleon]

is the invis bomb different from stock invis (ie sound, visibility)?

[arctic fog]

Just trust me on this

[plain wasp]

Imagine hot sauce gas in your eyes

[plain wasp]

Water should be a separate thing that spreads the freeze and cancels fire

And also it should weaken the environment to make it weak enough to be shot and broken

[shell sonnet]

fair
but hot sauce isnt really gaseous

being burning liquid would be closer imo

[vale mulch]

Would pyro grenades not hurting your teammates be balanced

[plain wasp]

Imagine a Pyro thrown into a doorway next to you and 2 lights come dashing through

[timber sparrow]

Hot sauce steam burns

[plain wasp]

Hot sauce bottle stun gun skin

Or Alternatively lemon juice

Or it'd work for flashbang

[kindred bear]

What are the current to-go gadgets for light?

[plain wasp]

Gateway, frag, goo, vortex for stopping steals

Thermal in reserve in case of multiple cloaks

[faint steppe]

Also stun. You can stun someone to stop their steal or make them drop the cashbox. Can be incredibly powerful

[plain wasp]

Yeah well stun is for chumps

[faint steppe]

Yeah, but it's still a go-to gadget.

[plain wasp]

I couldn't encourage people being an annoyance with stun

[faint steppe]

Lights are already an annoyance

[slim garnet]

Kill them faster, dont need stun

[royal pier]

Vortex is weirdly meh at steal denial. Several times I've just focused on staying lined up with the station and it never moved me enough to break it.

Honestly, I'm starting to think Vortex would be better for Heavy. It would be a huge benefit for the MGL32. The Lockbolt is alright, but I wouldn't mind if Light got it.

[plain wasp]

The vortex works very well in combination with a gas barrel with breach charges on it

[steel umbra]

why does this say season 5 sontestant

[plain wasp]

It'll hold them in the gas and get you lots of easy damage to finish them off while they're trying to get out of the vortex

[steel umbra]

this is all of the emerald skins but the ranked rewards all say season 4

[mystic nimbus]

that's a serious problem

gotta call the devs to fix it
who cares about model being busted for 5 seasons

[plain wasp]

They need to fix this before reverting the cloak changes frfr

This is a WAY bigger issue

[mystic nimbus]

imagine a cloak nerf before model nerf, wouldn't expect less from our balancing team

[plain wasp]

Cloak has already been nerfed many times since s1

[mystic nimbus]

and it was never op

[kindred bear]

They should nerf heavy👀

[mild wing]

any input? thanks!

[plain wasp]

Heal beam, demat // AKM, FAMAS // jump pad, defib, zipline, frags, glitch trap

[mild wing]

thanks

[plain wasp]

Defib should always be equipped but because of the change don't res out in the open anymore as it will lead to the death of your teammate

Atleast put them behind some cover

[ripe pilot]

The finals

[plain wasp]

thwoooooop

[ripe pilot]

[arctic fog]

I wish the Cerberus had like the smallest bit less spread so I could get like one or two extra meters out of a shot

[bronze dust]

true

[shadow onyx]

let it go can't hold it back anymooooooore

[oblique void]

Lockbolt needs a smaller boundary when it has enemies trapped, also lights can dash/grapple up to 30 meters or so away when caught which is fundamentally making the gadget useless against lights. Also the gravity vortex needs a radius increase, the affected area is just to small at the moment for the gadget to be useful in any impactful way.

[sand monolith]

Lockbolt should stay useless

We don’t need a cc gadget on heavy rivaling the usefulness of dome, rpg, and c4

As far as I’m aware we just got another season with no new gadgets which is better than Lockbolt being good

[steep light]

crazy

[royal pier]

I am so fucking over half the server being FAMAS

[plain wasp]

Vortex has been working very well for me

The enemies don't usually think to break the gas canister with a breach charge strapped to it next to the cashout and that gets me easy kills

[royal pier]

Why not? Also It's not useless to melee.

A gadget that simply forces you to stand and fight isn't particularly oppressive.

[sand monolith]

cc is inherently unfun to play against it doesn’t need to be a prominent gadget contending a meta slot

Nobody that plays in an elo where meta matters wants it to be meta either. It can be buffed a little to be actually useful. But it should either be redesigned or kept purposefully weaker

[royal pier]

It's Light CC, you never lose full control.

[sand monolith]

Oh I’m talking ab Lockbolt

The vortex is actually well designed and should be buffed

No idea what they would do with it though. It’s kinda in a gravity cube situation where it’s base effect just isn’t strong enough to contend other gadgets in the meta

[royal pier]

So am I

[sand monolith]

Oh not that kind of light

Yeah that’s why it’s so weak. It’s a light cc. It used to glitch everyone affected in the dev build and it was the worst shit you’ve ever seen

It was just another brainless fight opener

If I had to rework it I’d make it so that it can be manually detonated in mid air and the initial grab pulls everything affected towards it

[royal pier]

Imo it just needs a shorter tether and not allow you to drop away. If you get 10m away, vertically, you hard stop. If it's downwards, you dangle like a gd piñata.

[sand monolith]

I’d like it to be useful in some way that isn’t just “open fight by using gadget.” It’s AOE so you need to make sure it’s not so strong that it discourages others from playing with their team. That was one of the biggest issues with pre nerf rpg

[royal pier]

The game adds a strong counter to the current meta of MMM/MMH where they all just take hitscan fullautos and stand right near each other. They tend to bring APS, so frags/RPG are not a counter. The range of the Lockbolt lets it snag from outside the APS.

It's boring as shit to fight those teams that just huddle together.

[sand monolith]

Adding a counter in the form of punishment for others playing a team comp correctly is poor design

[plain wasp]

The radius of it is just too large for how difficult it is to land

[royal pier]

I also meant to say that the HMM teams tend to have a SA1216 who just sits on the healer and plays bodyguard, so even if you do get close, you lose.

[sand monolith]

You shouldn’t be punished for playing the way MMH / HHM meta teams play. It’s a healthy playstyle and those teams are playing well.

[royal pier]

You can play as a team w/o playing as a single-cell organism.

There's nothing impressive about just sitting on each other and dumping an APS.

[plain wasp]

Holding hands with your teammates is clearly optimal

[sand monolith]

The biggest issue is that it’s been meta for too long and no other team comp comes close to it. This is mainly due to the fact that the two support tools in the game benefit this playstyle almost exclusively

[royal pier]

It is, and it's not interesting imo.

[sand monolith]

Adding a CC gadget to counter teams that are playing well is very very bad design

[plain wasp]

Adding a counter to teams playing too close together

[sand monolith]

We need more viable meta team comps through the means of varied support outputs, not shutting down teams using the existing support options well

[royal pier]

Are they playing well, or just abusing the combo of APS with Heal Beam and FAMAS?

[plain wasp]

Playing right next to each other isn't fun to play against

[sand monolith]

This is subjective. Almost every high elo player loves this playstyle

[royal pier]

Any team with a mild bit of coordination can have a Heal Beam/APS guy they just huddle around.

[sand monolith]

Hence the begs for mesh buffs

[royal pier]

I don't heavy to be pressured into a Shield monke again.

[sand monolith]

Heavy shouldn’t be a shield bot but also it should be a viable playstyle

[royal pier]

At launch it's all anyone ever demanded I play.

I'm fine with it being viable, I'd rather it not be optimal.

[sand monolith]

It’s not rn but mesh could still use some small buffs. Alongside a winch rework

[royal pier]

Winch if fine outside of the fact that it can bug tf outa spear. It can leave you unable to attack for like +2 seconds.

[sand monolith]

Winch isn’t fine at all

[royal pier]

Any further nerfs will make it F tier.

[sand monolith]

It shouldn’t hard counter shields and it shouldn’t be unreactable. FPS games have spent forever iterating on “the hook mechanic” and finals goes against tons of game design work that’s been done for them

It doesn’t need nerfs it needs a rework. The range nerfs were stupid and the damage nerf was arguably stupid as well

[royal pier]

It's a projectile, I've blocked it with barricade/goo a good number of times. I do agree shields should block it.

[plain wasp]

Just have you required to swing it around like a lasso for a second before you can throw it and increase the range a bit

[sand monolith]

HES TRUE

[royal pier]

Always thaought that aspect was dumb. Shields block bulltets and explosions...but not a chain?

[royal pier]

So It'll never hit a light again.

[sand monolith]

A wind up and a range buff as well as being blocked by shields would be so nice

[royal pier]

Light already avoids winch fairly easily on pure reaction.

[sand monolith]

Not really

[plain wasp]

I dodged a Pyro nade off sound cue once

[royal pier]

Well, I should specify good lights lol.

[sand monolith]

It’s almost entirely in the hands of the winch user

Unless the light is on dash which is a dogshit spec to begin with

[royal pier]

And most are.

[plain wasp]

Buff dash somehow

It's crazy that they even removed getting extra speed when you get glitched mid dash

[sand monolith]

In casual sure

[royal pier]

The Invis Cloak is a fad imo. Too many sweaty players dump graphics to low, when higher lets you see the shimmer even at mid range.

[sand monolith]

Invis has been the meta in high elo since release. It’s not a fad lol it’s been the meta for a year for light

[royal pier]

Also, most settings barely impact FPS due to the game being so CPU intensive.

[royal pier]

Cause, like i said, they're probably all dumping settings to low.

They're playing like it's CS/Val.

I love that there's so many invis lights now, easy kills.

[sand monolith]

What

[royal pier]

You see invis better at higher settings.

Like, significantly so.

I've seen them sitting still at like 15m.

[sand monolith]

Stand still cloak is still almost perfectly invis on max settings but yeah running cloak is very easy to see even on low settings. Which is where the invis skill gap comes from is knowing when and where to stand still

[royal pier]

But the old sweat mantra is always moar frames = gooder

[plain wasp]

Me when xbox

[royal pier]

Oh it's dumb it's like this, for sure.

Settings should never have such an impact.

[sand monolith]

Stand still cloak should be full invis anyways though and then nerf duration

Semi invis is another poor design choice that embark ignored years of game design on

Almost every balance issue in this game has had years of iteration in the genre that embark completely ignored

[royal pier]

I'd just make it so that at range there's no visual, then closer up it does nothing, they just fade into view.

[sand monolith]

Would also work better than what we have now