And it's not like they'll kick you out if your mettle ever hits zero
#retired-patch-6-3-discussion
maiden lodge
dim sigil
Until you find out you need to build it up again to continue ranking up for the next Zone
maiden lodge
Maybe but the loss isn't going to be that great, you can make it up fast
From a failed use of the dice I mean
dim sigil
Also am I the only one who thinks the end there was kind of bad writing like they literally had their moment to act and they just stood around doing nothing
I mean there has been plenty of attacks in jrpgs like that dice i guess, it wouldn't ever work in the actual gamd but here in bozja we got things like that that to mess around with
gentle lynx
I wouldn't say they had their moment
wary pond
haste is bad to most jobs tbh
gentle lynx
They were afraid to disrupt the memory while you were in it
wet crown
Well you have to understand that some stuff in cutscenes happens at the same time
but they can't really show it
gentle lynx
by the time you were out there's a primal in front of them
wary pond
maybe only to blm in duels
maiden lodge
Missy Eliott had a hostage. So, they couldn't ask while she did, so they couldn't act while we were in the memory.
dim sigil
They had like 20 seconds before the memory thing even activated
maiden lodge
After then, they were reacting to tempering going on. Their reaction was to RUN AWAY.
Had they reacted in a different way, they would have been tempered.
wet crown
for example in Copied Factory :
the scene with 9S first shows him in the backround activating his boost or whatever and then a shot right before he does exactly that
dim sigil
Literally the second she talks the dragon girl aside they should have did something I mean I don't know it just feels dumb
wet crown
just different perspectives during the same moment
gleaming bough
Just got to the finale of bozja, i wonder does those ppl who claimed they are doing good actually look at the mirror
maiden lodge
'scene uses pacing to build tension' why aren't they acting this is bad 'ugh'
gleaming bough
Its like Saturday morning cartoon villain again when she laugh like that
gentle lynx
i do find it stupid that she tossed the hostage aside
maiden lodge
scene uses techniques developed over a century of film and visual language and time-tested means of building emotion 'this is not realistic booo'
'this is bad because it's not a documentary'
wet crown
she had no more use for Mikoto after she got the data from her echo
maiden lodge
I'm not even going to defend it, it doesn't require a defense.
It was paced deliberately to build emotional tension. It was using cinemacraft.
That's not bad.
It's not stupid.
gentle lynx
it's bad if it doesn't make sense for people to act that way
wet crown
I just told you why it looks that way
gleaming bough
I mean how misjal acts
maiden lodge
Yeah, Misjal acts like a villain
gleaming bough
You suppose to sympathize with her cause but man the way she act
maiden lodge
also she's a villain
dim sigil
You mean we're supposed to sympathize with her and not immediately want to shove a spear through her?
gleaming bough
Maybe its deliberate
maiden lodge
I don't sympathize with her
wet crown
she is an antagonist but not a villian
gentle lynx
She still had use of Mikoto though, she needed to fend off the Blades, and she needed to force you to activate the memory
maiden lodge
I understand her but she went to far
wet crown
she does have symphathetic goals in that she wants to reforge bozja but without the massive class divide
gleaming bough
Next patch i guess
gentle lynx
What moron throws away the only reason the people surrounding her aren't attacking her
maiden lodge
she is an antagonist but not a villian
@wet crown
Oh no, she crossed into villain territory when she deliberately mindfucked a ghost into summoning as a primal and mindfucked people we should care about into becoming permanently mindslaved enemies.
dim sigil
Also am I missing something or is that the fact that we can influence echos and change the past or something with people we bring in
wet crown
and I can't blame her for thinking it will end exactly like that again
dim sigil
oh God those googles
gleaming bough
Though it should not have lasting effect iirc?
dim sigil
I couldn't have been the only one who went searching for what the heck just happened in that Sid cutscene after I got to it
wet crown
...why? it was just an altered memory based on Cid's trauma
and the fight was...well anime
dim sigil
Because he says he saw us there but it was only Echo
gleaming bough
Also the queen in bozja is a roe?
wet crown
there was more than 1 queen
gleaming bough
I thought queen is supposed to be female hroth
dim sigil
I think I read like statistically it could be a hrothgar but there was other races
maiden lodge
Mizzy just changed the memory in the sword
agile otter
The story regarding Gunnhildr has alot of contradicting information.
We don't have an accurate summary of what actually happened.
gentle lynx
The original queen was Hroth. She pussed out of being the primal.
dim sigil
Ultimately if we want to go meta I'm pretty sure it's just an excuse to not make female Horthgar
gentle lynx
So the Blades went and got some lowborn to be 'queen' so they can sacrifice her for the primal
maiden lodge
And the sword, being a powerful artifact (much like the kami of treasures in Othard), and having the reverence and belief of an entire people as Save the Queen, is enough to make a primal.
gentle lynx
That lowborn is the queen we saw in the memory
dim sigil
Why wouldn't the roe person whatever her name was get tempered when she summoned the primal then
wary pond
she have echo
gentle lynx
Except she had the Echo, which made her like Ysayle. So she managed to summon the primal into herself without losing control of herself, effectively becoming a god
wary pond
maybe
maiden lodge
She mindfucked the primal.
The primal saw the Blades as her enemy, so tempered them in revenge.
gleaming bough
She did entered into the menory
gentle lynx
Since she became too powerful, the Blades killed her. But they didn't know that the Queen's aether remained in the sword.
gleaming bough
So he could have resonant
maiden lodge
Mizzy altered the primal's mind--and yeah, she entered the memory so she could have the echo or be resonent
dim sigil
And how would she know about the past anyway I assumed her family somehow knew and kept the hatred for Generations
agile otter
Misija version of the story is innaccurate. The memory shows Gunnhildr never had control of Save the Queen
wet crown
The echo or some sort of reports/diaries
wet crown
I also assume she might be a resonant at the least
wary pond
the queen is her ancestor or something
maiden lodge
Misija literally overwrote the truth with her own story.
agile otter
The femroe is Misija ancestor yes
dim sigil
I'm pretty sure the queen and her use the same exact model
gentle lynx
The queen is supposedly Misija's ancestor
wet crown
we know for a fact that primals can be altered, it's part of the very fundamentals of summoning
maiden lodge
And yeah, it's very likely Misija has the echo, because this is very likely how she entered the memory, and as well, how she could force her will on the primal.
topaz dune
either way, shes fucked cause now that shes tied to the primal, primal will eat her aether as well
maiden lodge
If we look at it from the sense of concept magic, changing the sword's memory changes the concept.
gentle lynx
Not if she has the echo i'd wager
gleaming bough
Right, the real question is. When will the queen clothe available for glam lol
gentle lynx
Ysayle could control Shiva, and Zenos controlled friggin' Shinryu
dim sigil
You mean it's going to be her aether draining then nwhen we often Italy have a very long raid fight with her and kill her
gleaming bough
Hmm need to recheck
wet crown
oh, that is very possible
topaz dune
cause yknow, a primal needs more puppets to control
agile otter
Pretty sure the whole primal summoning thing is not Gabranth's plan.
wet crown
ehmmm...
agile otter
Especially since they are rouge imperial forces.
wet crown
Gabranth's plan was just to stall out the resistance in Bozja to take over Dalmasca
maiden lodge
Pretty sure Lyon's gonna turn on Mizija
wet crown
which is why we can expect to go there
agile otter
The cutscene implies that Menenius held disobeying orders
gleaming bough
Defeat gods and ascian , had a fucking world load of light aether stored in body.
Cant even block the queen blast...
Wth wol
topaz dune
his master plan is to create his own nation, not have a hateful bitch like Mizija with a primal snatch it all away
gentle lynx
dafuq you mean can't block, WoL was blocking it for a good amount of time
gleaming bough
@gentle lynx looks like wol is struggling
maiden lodge
WoL was busy extending immunity to everyone
agile otter
Lyon doesn't like Meneius, and can tell he is using people
gentle lynx
Lyon doesn't like dirty schemes, he was mocking Menenius the whole way at the end
maiden lodge
mmmhmm
gentle lynx
He's also completely loyal to Gabranth
maiden lodge
And mocking Mizija. Probably also the Adremmelech dude as well
gleaming bough
Lyon just want to fight
wary pond
not really
he is ok with it
but misjina is not a puppet to discard
she has promise
gentle lynx
If Mizija and Menenius try anything against Gabranth, Lyon might even help us kill them
wary pond
is what lyon meant
topaz dune
they have yet to know who exactly we are though
maiden lodge
I mean we already know the next part is the shrine of the queen so we're probably going after Missy next
gentle lynx
Right now I don't know Menenius' true loyalties
wary pond
lyon does know
agile otter
Let me just summon a primal to give the most dangerous group of people to come visit me
wary pond
we who beaten zenos
gentle lynx
Though my guess is Mizija has full control over Save the Queen
topaz dune
for now*
gleaming bough
Next patch could have us facing them
agile otter
The memory and ancestor thing might just make it a bit of a nonstand primal
gleaming bough
Though with the blades controlled
gentle lynx
we'll probably just kill the Blades
gleaming bough
Im thinking the blades will be field boss on next patcg
Like those other in red color gear
gentle lynx
Like the named Garlean NPCs in the FATEs?
gleaming bough
Yrah
gentle lynx
likely
slim egret
does ilvl in boz really matter if u are lvling a character under 80? Like if theyre ilvl 400, do they have less stats than everyone else?
topaz dune
of course mizija prob wont be able to control the primal since all primals require aether
and more aether = more power hungry
gentle lynx
Ysayle never had problems with Shiva
gleaming bough
Overall, the final dungeon is fun.
I wonder if BA was like that
gentle lynx
BA was MUCH more hardcore
slim egret
I think BA was like that but way harder to organize
48 man savage will prolly be like BA
wet crown
BA was very dickish but the bosses also had simple mechanics
topaz dune
to be honest
slim egret
just wait a few months to see
gleaming bough
Couldn't get to BA cuz the grind is trash
gentle lynx
BA had that damn elemental mechanic, and no free rezzing
slim egret
tbh i wanna see more dungeons like castrum. Castrum feels like an actual dungeon
compared to the other dungeons we get
that prison mini game is really fun
gentle lynx
also explosive traps
topaz dune
bozja society is still a piss&shit field, and it doesnt help with having her do what was shone is making it more hopeless
topaz dune
||of course we didnt||
slim egret
We dont know yet i think
gentle lynx
dunno yet
gleaming bough
Guesd we just have to wait
slim egret
i feel like it'd make sense to collect the lost actions now
as they will prolly be important
next patch
like the lvl 15 ones and stuff
maiden lodge
We'll go to Delubra (sp) Reginae, the shrine of the queen
gentle lynx
the lost actions will definately carry forward to the next
the lvl 15 ones are memes though
gentle lynx
one lets you physically yeet your lost actions as an attack
wet crown
dim sigil
ah good ol ff
gentle lynx
the other lets you dupe someone else's active lost actions
and then there's the meme dice
wet crown
but not essence buffs
slim egret
i wanna see some 8 man dungeons that i can do with premade parties that are like castrum in the future
gleaming bough
Which essence is the best?
wet crown
there is no best
gentle lynx
it's situational
wet crown
they're all useful
topaz dune
i bet mizijia will get triggered after we nearly kill her in the next dungeon
wary pond
bloodsucker if tank
beast if dps
dim sigil
death clearly
topaz dune
gentle lynx
also i want more content like the solo engagements, just more reliably accessible
slim egret
same
maiden lodge
well, beast is defensive, not offensive, so it may not be the best for storming CMM
gleaming bough
There is the tank one that gives 60% damage without drawback?
gentle lynx
i'm about ready to give up on ever actually being allowed to do them. I qualify every round and just don't get picked
wary pond
cmm?
gleaming bough
Essence of martial iirc
maiden lodge
CLL, sorry misspell
slim egret
the first solo engagement gonna be always hard to get tho
cause like 20 qualify for that
gentle lynx
there's cross-class essences that basically let you be two roles at once
gentle lynx
no i mean, i qualify and get in queue for solo engagement
i just don't win the lottery to be the 1
ever
slim egret
it would be cool if we could spawn them with an item
with clusters
cause itll be really annoying when everyone wants to clear
slim egret
or another thing i saw suggested for duels
maiden lodge
Does the priority buff not apply to duels?
slim egret
^^
gentle lynx
no it does not
slim egret
you have like an hour timer on the solo engagement
wary pond
it doesnt
slim egret
or 30 min
maiden lodge
Oh well
gentle lynx
We're allowed to whine about shitty design
wary pond
dude accepting shitty design is worse than fixing it
maiden lodge
It's shitty because you want more, or it's shitty because it's actually a problem that forstalls how the place works?
Cause, last I heard, the point of them is not to be a core part of Bozja
So, they're not impeding the core loops of Bozja
So, they're not shitty because they're not actually a real problem
gentle lynx
It's shitty because people who want to play it and are prepared for it aren't actually allowed to play it by no means they can control
maiden lodge
So, are they just shitty because you waaaaaanit?
slim egret
Here let me tell u how i see next month
wary pond
yes limiting content that 20 ppl wanna do it to single person is good idea right?
slim egret
everyones gonna wanna clear solo engagement
person will get selected, fail in first second
everyonbe will make fun of them in shout chat
its a toxic design
*everyone
gentle lynx
Yeah, it just breeds toxicity
maiden lodge
Well if you jumped in expecting it not to be limited, that's on you.
They told us, multiple times, it would be limitied.
slim egret
yes they did
gentle lynx
Qualification by getting a perfect run of the preliminary CE is good, because you can do something about it
slim egret
and its shitty
gentle lynx
RNG selection is bad because you CAN'T do something about it
maiden lodge
And the toxicity, it seems, comes from people bitching about things being exactly as advertised.
All so you can what... do a 1v1 you don't have to do at all?
wary pond
now lets make that design on EX primals
only 1 pf out of 15 enter EX fight
gentle lynx
You realize the game as a whole is something you don't 'have' to do?
wary pond
lets see how ppl will like it
maiden lodge
EX primals are a different part of the content loop.
slim egret
yeah 1 out of 15 enter ex. Not everyone has to do extreme primals
gentle lynx
Bozja is something you don't 'have' to do
slim egret
u know what, lets also do 1/50 parties get in a raffle to do savage
gentle lynx
Savage and Ex are things you don't 'have' to do
odd yoke
It was also advertised as very hard and you should be prepared, which no one does
slim egret
savage is not required either
gentle lynx
GAMES are things you don't 'have' to do
maiden lodge
Ex primals are the gateway weapon and catchup mechanics. 1v1 duels aren't even clsoe to that.
gentle lynx
gratz Kalam
slim egret
maiden lodge
So, I mean, you go off picking apart the 'don't have to do' but ignore the actual point, like one does when they do n't have a case.
maiden lodge
Well go off.
gentle lynx
What the fuck you mean actual point
odd yoke
You soft grief people by taking away content and a good buff
random anvil
too many people dying to feathers
maiden lodge
You just go off.
gentle lynx
i literally just argued your point
maiden lodge
No, you didn't chaika
maiden lodge
You picked a word, used it out of context and thought 'GOTEEEM'
gentle lynx
Yes I did, you said there is no problem because the content isn't something you 'have' to do
okay hold on my laptop is acting up i need to reboot
maiden lodge
Intead of stopping, calming your shit, and reading, and realizing that EX fucking primals and 1v1 duels are not the same fucking points on their respective content loops
Calm your shit
Address what I am saying
And not what you want me to say so you look good.
wary pond
@slim egret yes its catch up to me who didnt get gabriel mount yet even after beating 5 duels
my rng sux
maiden lodge
Ex primals serve as a catch up mechanic, and an introduction to higher end content.
wary pond
no
slim egret
i got gabriel mount day 1, tried to sell it, got undercutted so much that i just used it
itll prolly be really cheap sooner or later
maiden lodge
1v1 duals are an extra side thing that dose not serve as a gateway to anything--they literally just exist to show off
Castrum does not give mettle, it does give unique frags though
maiden lodge
ooh a title
odd yoke
And buff
maiden lodge
oooooh bragging rights
wary pond
they are about EX difficulty
enough call out to those seeking challenge
maiden lodge
It's not that.
It's just that... you know... it's not a gateway to anything.
And pretending it is to think you have a point is fucking pepega
maiden lodge
Yes they are.
wary pond
without touching exs
maiden lodge
They're literally the difficulty below savage
They're literally the weapons step above crafted
odd yoke
And aren't needed
wary pond
im not forced to do it
slim egret
the only requirement for savage imo
maiden lodge
Didn't say they are needed.
vagrant sinew
extremes aren't needed
they just help
slim egret
is the crafted gear
maiden lodge
So go off, you crazy diamond, shine on mate
'1v1s are equivalent to EXs' is not true, and pretending they are to make a point makes your argument look bad.
wary pond
a queue could work like chaika proposed
i mean u still need to do alot more mechs right
slim egret
yeah
odd yoke
They're the same in terms of difficulty
slim egret
keep the CE going
wary pond
than any EX
slim egret
until the boss is dead
maiden lodge
They're not the same in terms of place in the content.
slim egret
if we keep the CE going until the boss is dead, itll stop the toxicity
cause if someone fails fast
someone else gets a shot
maiden lodge
No it's not TTP.
odd yoke
Its like housing
gentle lynx
laptop fan is still wonky i don't know how long i'm staying
odd yoke
maiden lodge
It's like saying 'a raid tier below savage that gives you a sub-savage but above-crafted upgrade is not the same as a side piece of content that leads into nothing and provides no progression and is only there for bragging rights'
gentle lynx
but the point is, Ex fights also aren't a gateway to anything
topaz dune
maiden lodge
Holy shit
slim egret
lol i found the bozjan math boss CE
gentle lynx
I can play savage without doing ex. But why do i need to play savage?
slim egret
harder than the alliance raid
maiden lodge
It's like if you actually address the points
slim egret
lol
topaz dune
math boss exists in bozja
gentle lynx
I don't need to touch Ex or Savage or any kind of high-end content in order to beat the campaign
topaz dune
is equally frustrating too
slim egret
ye
gentle lynx
the only reason we do them... is because they're fun. And they're content.
maiden lodge
Extremes can lead into Savage. It's not necessary, but it can help. And pretending it can't is being dishoenst, and you fucking KNOW it.
slim egret
fun
maiden lodge
What's the content that duals stands between?
odd yoke
Levelling faster
gentle lynx
What does Savage lead into? What does Ultimate lead into?
slim egret
fun
maiden lodge
If Extreme is to Savage, duals is to... what?
gentle lynx
We play games, for FUN.
gentle lynx
Games, that don't allow us to play them, are not FUN.
And if it's not fun, why bother?
wary pond
ultimate lead to legend difficulty that we wont see til 9.0 @gentle lynx
maiden lodge
In other words, you CAN'T answer that, because you know it has no answer.
wary pond
maiden lodge
Because you KNOW it's not the same as Extremes
gentle lynx
No, you refuse to see the answer
maiden lodge
No, I DO see the answer
odd yoke
The answer we just said like 3 times
gentle lynx
I literally just said, it is the same as Extreme, Savage, and Ultimate, because it. is. FUN.
maiden lodge
Yeah, the duals exist for fun, and only fun.
odd yoke
And levelling faster
gentle lynx
The only reason we play them, any part of this game, is because it's FUN.
slim egret
savage equipment just help kill fasterr
maiden lodge
But Extremes, unless you're fucking blind or an idiot, obviously play a role in content progression as well
gentle lynx
Imagine if you're only allowed to attempt a savage run once an hour, if you roll a 1d10 and land on 10.
maiden lodge
And if you're pretending it doesn't to try to get one over on me, you're being dishonest.
heady shadow
I wouldnt mind doing the 1v1.
maiden lodge
So, stop being dishonest please.
heady shadow
looks fun
gentle lynx
No extremes do not play a role in content progression
no one needs to play extreme to play the main story campaign
slim egret
@gentle lynx i can see people arguing for it cause S.E does everything right to them 
maiden lodge
So extrmes do not offer upgrades or catch up for off jobs and don't drop weapons?
So they don't?
gentle lynx
They offer upgrades that are not necessary
maiden lodge
I never said they were necessary.
gentle lynx
They give stuff, yes, but they are not necessary.
odd yoke
Nah cause savage is my catch up
slim egret
ok so they made the 1v1s super rare right
odd yoke
5head
maiden lodge
I never said they were necessary
slim egret
but they made mechanics on the 1v1s u need to practice
how are u gonna practice a lot if its so rng gated
its bad design
maiden lodge
Address what I am actually saying, please
Stop putting words in my mouth and calling it a victory.
maiden lodge
Do Extremes, or do they not, drop gear that is between savage and crafted? Yes, or no?
gentle lynx
You're not saying anything. You're saying somehow that because Extreme gives gear it's completely different from solo, and because solo doesn't give gear it doesn't matter how it's designed or how accessible it is
That was the original argument
wary pond
u dont need EXs
maiden lodge
You're arguing in bad faith.
wary pond
to beat anything
gentle lynx
No, YOU are
slim egret
we are acknowledging it
maiden lodge
And you are no longer worth my time
No, you are arguing in bad faith.
And you are no longer worth my time.
Good day.
gentle lynx
Yeah keep telling yourself that. You've even tried distracting us from the original argument we were having
maiden lodge
Not once have you acknowledged it.
wary pond
imagine thinking that we are worthing your time busy guy
maiden lodge
You've lied about things to make a point, you've lied about what I've said.
Good. Day.
gentle lynx
Which was that Solo being unreliably accessible through no fault of the player is bad
You have, not once, argued why that is not a problem
maiden lodge
And what I was saying, is that likening it to extremes is a bad idea because it serves a different point on the content loop
gentle lynx
Instead saying that because it is not 'important', it doesn't matter how inaccessible it is
gentle lynx
but it's not. They're both optional difficult content that we play FOR FUN.
maiden lodge
You've pretended that extremes have no intended place on the content loop, and have evaded the evidence that it has
maiden lodge
You. Are. Arguing. In. Bad. Faith.
slim egret
just wait till last bozja area unlocks and we will have an achievment that gives a mount for all solo duels cleared
gentle lynx
And at no point did i say extremes are not part of some kind of content loop. But so are solo engagements.
maiden lodge
1v1s are like houses
@odd yoke
This. They're not meant to be 'everyone always gets to do them'
gentle lynx
They are CONTENT
gentle lynx
They are content that we do for FUN
maiden lodge
Do you not see how those are different statements?
wary pond
bozja is part of loop yhough
maiden lodge
Extremes lead to something, there's a clear before, and after.
What do 1v1s lead to?
gentle lynx
How the fuck are solo engagements not part of the loop, they're in the game, they're part of Bozja
maiden lodge
What do 1v1s lead to?
wary pond
if u cant beat savage for bis
odd yoke
Higher ranks
wary pond
u got other means to
odd yoke
For everyone
maiden lodge
What do 1v1s lead to? Your claim is they are similar, then make your argument.
viscid monolith
Everyone benefits from Solo Engagements
gentle lynx
And how many times do i have to say it doesn't need to lead to anything
And how many times do i have to say they are similar because they are all optional content that players want to do FOR FUN
wary pond
u know solo engagement give everyone 30k mettle?
maiden lodge
I never said they had to to be valid
wary pond
iirc
maiden lodge
Again, you're putting words in my mouth.
viscid monolith
Well. Everyone benefits when someone wins a solo engagement
maiden lodge
When I am saying they do not fit the same point as extremes--extremes lead to something, and 1v1s do not--that inherently means they do not fit the same point as extremes, doesn't it?
odd yoke
They're part of the loop because it assists with levelling
viscid monolith
The entire instance gets a 50% mettle bonus for some time I can't remember
odd yoke
Buffs
maiden lodge
Okay.
gentle lynx
It doesn't need to give tangible benefits to anyone. The argument has always been, it's optional content designed for players to challenge themselves, people want to play it, and it is bad design to make it so people aren't allowed to play it thorugh no control of their own
brisk quail
1v1s is like a instance boost
odd yoke
50% mettle gain for 30mins dor EVERYONE
brisk quail
If someone wins it EVERYONE WINS
viscid monolith
I wish there was some way to assist people in winning
maiden lodge
It doesn't need to give tangible benefits to anyone.
@gentle lynx
To be equivalent to extremes,it kinda does.
odd yoke
Shirs good
gentle lynx
The fact that it boosts the instance, is irrelevant
slim egret
im willing to bet SE is gonna add a qeueue or something to 1v1 lol
gentle lynx
The fact it gives gear or not, is not relevant
slim egret
give it a few weeks
viscid monolith
A queue would be pointless
maiden lodge
No, I'm not saying that Chaika, and this is why I'm saying you're going off and being disingenous
gentle lynx
It is not similar to an Extreme in the sense that it gives gear, or some kind of tangible benefit
maiden lodge
I'm not saying it's bad they don't 'mean anything' in the long term.
gentle lynx
it is similar, in that both are optional pieces of challenging content
that people do
for
fun
slim egret
@viscid monolith i mean as in, if someone loses to the 1v1, another person selected would get a chance to challenge it
and itll let 5 people challlenge it
viscid monolith
Oh ya that would be nice
Lyon seems like the type of person to challenge 1 person after the other.
gentle lynx
Boil it down and that's what any of it is, Ex, Savage, Ultimate
maiden lodge
I'm saying, because they don't 'mean anything' they don't necessarily have to have the same open-entry design as extremes, which do have some place in the progression loop, so it's not inherently bad that you only get one shot as the entire instance or that it's random.
maiden lodge
But you're saying 'okay but it's fun' and I'm not saying it's not fun, so I don't know why you keep reverting to that, except in that you're literally not trying to understand what I'm saying.
gentle lynx
All you're saying is because it doesn't 'mean anything' it can be as obscure and inaccessible as it wants and no one shoudl be allowed to complain
slim egret
lyons easy to get selected for i think cause its locked behind the red chocobo lol
maiden lodge
You're literally just ignoring what I'm saying, picking a couple words, and trying to address points I'm not trying to make.
brisk quail
I think I can beat Lyon the next time I fight him
Me: does top in castrum like 7 times
Me: i can take him
maiden lodge
And I'm asking you to please stop.
viscid monolith
I have 3 Reraises lined up just for him
slim egret
lyons the middle one right?
brisk quail
Me: nope. I lied
viscid monolith
Yes
maiden lodge
I'm not saying you're not allowed to complain.
I'm saying that if you're going to complain, make sure you've got stronger reasons than 'I want to do it more often'
odd yoke
I got 19
slim egret
oh i love the reraises
gentle lynx
It really is all it boils down to. We're saying, this is content that people want to play, making it heavily restricted through no player control is not good design. And you're saying, it's perfectly fine as is, because it's not part of some 'core gameplay loop'
maiden lodge
And right now, your reasons are, factually 'I just want to do it more.' And its a valid desire. But it's not a reason for them to change the content, necessarily.
odd yoke
I like barely ever see lyon or pyro
viscid monolith
I can consistently do Choctober without getting hit. I just haven't been picked the last 3 times
maiden lodge
Rare.
slim egret
like we finally have some really well designed 1v1 fights but the majority of the playerbase wont get a chance to do it cause of rng
which i think is shitty
maiden lodge
The majority of the playerbase shouldn't be doing them
gentle lynx
Exactly, what Suhun said, that's the problem
odd yoke
But they are
maiden lodge
That's intended design
maiden lodge
Yeah and they are punished for it
odd yoke
Everyone is
wary pond
reraising isnt rare
i had harder time getting manawalls/dispel than reraising
odd yoke
Cause its a missed buff
slim egret
do u keep the reraise after its used
viscid monolith
Another thing they could do is have the 1v1s come after more CEs
slim egret
or do u have to pop another one
wary pond
no
maiden lodge
Bleh, I don't feel entitled to a mettle buff
wary pond
pop another
viscid monolith
You gotta use another one
odd yoke
They need a much better disclaimer
gentle lynx
Except they're punishing EVERYONE by wasting rare opportunities
odd yoke
About being prepared
maiden lodge
I mean
gentle lynx
And the argument was never about the mettle buff
open verge
Does castrum give exp??
odd yoke
And actions required
maiden lodge
That's a way to look at it
odd yoke
It doesn't
gentle lynx
The argumentw as about gameplay
maiden lodge
The way I look at it, is that 1v1s are nice to have, but they aren't going to affect me emotionally because they don't interact much with the reasons I am there.
dim sigil
Maybe not a good comparison or anything but what brings to mind if something like somebody presents you a 5- star Chef meal and it's in every sense of the word good but you taste it and it tastes like absolute s*** and that's the difference between what is considered if this is good or not I don't know that was my attempt
viscid monolith
!action Deep Essence of the Martial
lusty shadowBOT
wary pond
i got 1 manawall out of 50 cautions
and 7 reraises out of 30 care? fragments
viscid monolith
Wait no
gentle lynx
So basically you don't care because you have no interest in doing them
viscid monolith
!action Deep Essence of the Beast
lusty shadowBOT
Powered by XIVAPI
slim egret
also by giving more players a chance for the 1v1s, itll help increase the amount of players doing boza.
maiden lodge
No, that isn't what I said.
viscid monolith
2 HOUR BLOODBATH
slim egret
cause most people will quit it within a week or two if not given an incentive
maiden lodge
Please, actually read what I said.
viscid monolith
maiden lodge
You twisting my words is annoying and infantile.
And beneath you.
Be better than that.
vagrant sinew
I mean you kinda did say that tho
"1v1s are nice, but I'm not interested in doing them"
gentle lynx
The way I look at it, is that 1v1s are nice to have, but they aren't going to affect me emotionally because they don't interact much with the reasons I am there.
viscid monolith
It feels like cheating fighting him on Ranged so I'll use Monk
vagrant sinew
that's literally what you said
maiden lodge
And they don't.
gentle lynx
Meaning, you're not there for the solo engagements, you're not invested in doing them, so you dont' care
maiden lodge
Where does it say I don't want to do them?
Please highlight where I said I didn't want to do them?
slim egret
Yeah but what about the players that are interested in doing them
maiden lodge
Do it or admit you're wrong.
gentle lynx
but you're not INVESTED in doing them. It doesn't affect you emotionally. It does not interact with the reasons you are there.
slim egret
content is not just catered to you
vagrant sinew
exactly
maiden lodge
Right, I'm not invested but I still would like to do them.
vagrant sinew
if you're not invested in doing them that means you don't want to do them
soft gyro
what i don't like about 1v1, is that i can't do them
wary pond
!action banner of honed acuity @viscid monolith
lusty shadowBOT
maiden lodge
But doesn't get Rabidly butthurt when someone else does, because that gives me time to do other things.
gentle lynx
But it does not affect you emotionally. You want to do them, in the way that some rando sees it pop up and think 'oh hey that's kinda cool might as well try right'
gentle lynx
So that means you're not invested and you don't care whether you get the shot or not
maiden lodge
It means when I see thirteen people signed up, I go
'Welp, time to go grind clusters'
gentle lynx
you get it, it's fine. You don't, you don't care.
wary pond
!buff banner of honed acuity @viscid monolith
lusty shadowBOT
maiden lodge
'Hey I got picked nice'
viscid monolith
Which one is that
maiden lodge
I don't actually set a ton of emotional stakes on winning a 1 in 13 roll
modest lantern
Is Bozjan armor an upgrade for job AF armor, or is it just different armor for Bozjan content??
viscid monolith
Different armor
viscid monolith
Entirely separate from AF
maiden lodge
But I'm not going to cry about it if I lose the roll
slim egret
Do you guys know u can be unlimited fire mage in boz with the unlimited ether potion
wary pond
@viscid monolith give u 3 mins of 30% crit rate + 20% faster gcds
when triggered
gentle lynx
Honestly whatever. I get it, you don't care, and you don't think other people should care. I'm done with this argument.
modest lantern
Will we get another upgrade for our AF armor then, like Eureka did??
next quarry
We already got the Dyable version
maiden lodge
Chaika, if you can't understand that you can want to do something but not be fucking wrecked, emotionally, by not having a turn that one time, that's entirely on you.
ENTIRELY.
On.
You.
next quarry
Elemental Armor was something completely new too
gentle lynx
"Think about what you could've done in those 2 hours you spent talking about... Bernie Sanders Solo engagements. Imagine thinking that your opinions matter. On the INTERNET."
modest lantern
ok ty for info guys 🙂
dim sigil
Bun
maiden lodge
I'm saying, Chaika, that perhaps having a healthy perspective of the matter will make you less angry about it.
slim egret
Actually complaining about solo engagements will help S.E change it
it shows the playerbase wants change
gentle lynx
If your 'healthy perspective' is not giving a shit, then i'd rather be upset, frankly
soft gyro
what is there to complain about solo engangement?
wary pond
current way to get in solo engagement is shit
maiden lodge
And being emotionally affected you didn't get in might not be healthy perspective.
soft gyro
ah, yeah that one
vagrant sinew
brb complaining about current sleeve draw
slim egret
the rng locked and how barely anyone will be able to do it
wary pond
ppl complained about BA portals
maiden lodge
Yeah, imagine not being emotionally invested you lost a roll
wary pond
and that changed
gentle lynx
Yeah, and they got rid of portals
dim sigil
i mean at a certain point its a bit unhealthy to be that mad over a video game
gentle lynx
and it's better now
maiden lodge
What's next? Complaining that only one person gets a mount drop in extremes? Come on.
slim egret
no
maiden lodge
People get upset and butthurt about that
slim egret
cause thats good deisgn
gentle lynx
you can farm mount drops at your own leisure
slim egret
lol
maiden lodge
It's content
wary pond
u got other means to get mount
gentle lynx
and if you get 99 totems you can just buy it
wary pond
clear 99 times
slim egret
no ones complaining cause everyone gets an equal chance
gentle lynx
You can get a party and literally just farm it until all 8 of you have it
maiden lodge
No you're complaining it's not often enough
slim egret
and u needa farm 99 for a guaranteed mount
maiden lodge
and I get that
You want to do it more.
And I am not saying that your want is invalid.
I'm saying... and have only said...
gentle lynx
And the mount... isn't gameplay. It's a reward for gameplay.
The solo engagement IS gameplay.
maiden lodge
You wanting a thing doesn't make it being rare bad design, inherently.
REad that until you get it.
wary pond
if im unlucky i go and clear 99 times
better than clear 600 times
then a guy with 30th clear get it
maiden lodge
So you need more than "I want it" to argue bad design
gentle lynx
How is 'i want to play the content' a bad argument
maiden lodge
You. Wanting a thing. Doesn't make. It being rare. Bad Design, inherently. So you need. More than. 'I want it'. To argue. Bad Design.
Do you have a reason more than 'I want it?' Yes, or no?
gentle lynx
That
soft gyro
imo, having only out of 1 of possible 72 players to be able to do solo engangement content kinda sucks
gentle lynx
Like, imagine this
slim egret
seriously a good way to fix it is let 5-10 people try it until its dead
gentle lynx
You boot up the game, you're in a queue with 48 other people
soft gyro
its also random, so you could never participate it
gentle lynx
only 1 of you get to log in
viscid monolith
Let's be real though
viscid monolith
Most people aren't good enough to even qualify for a duel
gentle lynx
it's not just a reward for gameplay, it IS the gameplay
viscid monolith
The most I've seen is 12
slim egret
you get 20 people qualifying for the first duel
maiden lodge
Right, that's why I said 1 in 13 rather than 1 in 24.
slim egret
the second one is harder to get in
gentle lynx
I've seen it like 5 times or so over the day and i think only 1 dipped under 15
wary pond
i seen 34 ppl in gabriel
15 in red lyon
14 in blm
gentle lynx
Mr Happy literally won a 20+ to 1 lottery
gentle lynx
and pyro is just... rare in and of itself. Like, Metal Fox Chaos itself.
wary pond
to get in one
slim egret
we are not seeing many people queue for them since its new content
but imagine in a few weeks
maiden lodge
Alright, so here's what I'm saying.
maiden lodge
Perhaps that buff is intended, as part of the design, to be rare.
slim egret
maiden lodge
So, the chances for the buff to occur cannot be often.
gentle lynx
oh my fucking god he's still arguing about the buff
maiden lodge
Chaika, shut the fuck up and wait till I've made my point
So, if... they make the duels more often
soft gyro
what buff?
wary pond
he is not inclined to
soft gyro
oh, the duel buff?
maiden lodge
They have to make the buff either worse, nerfed to the ground, or harder to get.
gentle lynx
Apparently if someone actually wins a duel there's an instance-wide mettle gain buff
soft gyro
aah, mettle, that isnt that important
gentle lynx
yes
maiden lodge
More duals, but a worse worse buff?
gentle lynx
Mettle isn't even hard to farm
maiden lodge
Right.
gentle lynx
And at the rate it's going, the buff doesn't happen at all
maiden lodge
And do you acknowledge that, from the standpoint of design, that the buff itself might be balanced around the rarity of successful duels?
gentle lynx
I'd rather get a small boost every few hours than no buff at all
soft gyro
yeah, they die so much they loose mettle, so they have to rely on the mettle buff to gain mettle
gentle lynx
exactly that again
maiden lodge
I'm not asking that
viscid monolith
Mettle isn't hard to farm. It's slow but not hard
wary pond
we said mettle isnt hard to farm
having a buff or no doesnt change anything
but its a welcomed change
slim egret
youlll get a lot of mettle just grinding classes to 70-80
maiden lodge
I'm asking, can you, as a human person, at least acknowledge that from the standpoint of design, the buff itself might be balanced around the rarity of successful duels, and vice versa?
slim egret
unless u already got most classes maxed out lmao
viscid monolith
And people slow themselves down by wasting time on lower Skirmishes
gentle lynx
But we're not talking about whether the buff is balanced
maiden lodge
No, you're talking about design
odd yoke
I'm sad that the last duels i tried to get in i either get hit at 2% or fucking NOT QUE FOR THE CE
maiden lodge
And the buff is part of the design
viscid monolith
If you're over 10 you should be camping up North
gentle lynx
If in order to make the fight itself more accessible we nerf the buff, that is a change i am willing to make
maiden lodge
So if you want to talk about bad design, you need to acknowledge the design.
viscid monolith
And only moving to mid and south for CEs
gentle lynx
I am not going to defend the rng limitation just because of the buff
maiden lodge
If you can't talk about the buff, you can't talk about the design and make constructive complaints that effect change
soft gyro
there is no rng in mettle tho
wary pond
@odd yoke dont lose your focus at last 2%
its a lesson i leant from all my savage and ultimates exp
odd yoke
I dont
gentle lynx
But we can talk about the buff, and i'm saying, if it has to go to make the fight itself more accessible then it can go
maiden lodge
You're complaining about design, I'm asking you to pay the fuck attention to part of it.
and that is fair of me to ask you to fucking do.
Meet me on this.
odd yoke
But fucking hell the clipping and peoples low dps
gentle lynx
THEN CHANGE THE BUFF TOO
gentle lynx
We already said this
wary pond
yes we complaining about its design
maiden lodge
But you acknowledge then the buff is part of the design?
gentle lynx
The fight itself is what's important
lilac crest
I’m getting top 3 dps as whm with no essence @odd yoke 
maiden lodge
Because I'm seriously trying to lead you fucking horses to water, so fucking drink it, help me fucking god damn help you here.
gentle lynx
Yes, so change the fight's accessibility and change the buff as well to balance around how the fight's accessibility is changed
odd yoke
I wish i could parse on ps4 😔
maiden lodge
Right.
wary pond
the way duels work is repeating the same mistake BA portals did
gentle lynx
You are talking like the buff is just this law of nature that is set in stone and simply cannot be changed no matter what
maiden lodge
No, Chaika, I'm not
wary pond
@odd yoke im ps4 too
maiden lodge
Chaika, can I give a word of advice, just in general?
gentle lynx
Guess what, if we need to change the buff too, then change it, that's not a problem we were arguing
wary pond
and i still aim for high parses
odd yoke
Same
maiden lodge
Stop inventing, in your brain, arguments that aren't made, and just address what is said. Like... in life. Just do this.
soft gyro
lilac crest
slim egret
@wary pond is there a way you parse on ps4 or do you just rely on others
gentle lynx
@soft gyro wtf happened there?
wary pond
946? not alot
lilac crest
Rely on others @slim egret
soft gyro
fighting behemoth
wary pond
rely on ppl
gentle lynx
oh boy
maiden lodge
It's annoying that this has become a general societal habit to say 'Oh well all you're saying is that you don't care about babies' and shit, and it's really just you shutting down and ignoring productive conversation, and people (including myself) just fucking need to stop doing that forever starting immediately.
cobalt ingot
he's just like the fox really
soft gyro
yeah, behemoth is easy, but the mini-behemoths are annoying af
cobalt ingot
watch where the aoes go and react
gentle lynx
You get blinsided by some behemoth on the far side of the arena pretty easily
lilac crest
I still hate red chocobo
So many things that could go wrojg man
Cause of random ppl
😔
wary pond
tbh behemoth meteor cast took me unaware
it was faster than i expected
wary pond
was funny death
maiden lodge
Behemoth is paying attention to the puddles--you shouldn't get blindsided because you have a lot of warning as to where the cones will be
(saying this I get blindsided like an idiot)
soft gyro
what puddles?
odd yoke
Zombie like puddles
lilac crest
Puddles that resurrect behemoth
maiden lodge
Yeah
odd yoke
Touch them and you get zombied
maiden lodge
The zombie puddles rez the behemoths and also have the zombie debuff
soft gyro
yeah, the puddles isnt hard, it's the cone attack from behemoths
maiden lodge
The behemoths always face the same direction, and only the ones in puddles get raised
lilac crest
Does zombie mean you dont die 
gentle lynx
no
odd yoke
No
wary pond
no
odd yoke
You're just confused basically
slim egret
whats the hardest CE in ur guys opinion?
lilac crest
Oh
maiden lodge
So you pay attention to the directions the behemoths are facing, and move before the cones exist
lilac crest
Red chocobo
gentle lynx
Zombie basically makes you run around auto-ing people
soft gyro
yeah, but i cant
lilac crest
No competition
gentle lynx
it's like confusion
soft gyro
see them all
lilac crest
Fuck that one
wary pond
@slim egret metal fix
wary pond
fox
lilac crest
Metal fox is easy
slim egret
i forgot the name
lilac crest
Once you know what to do
gentle lynx
Metal fox is easy once you get the mechanic
soft gyro
i can't see all the behemoths, which is sometimes hidden between the boss
odd yoke
Metal fox cause how small those safe zones are with all firing
maiden lodge
Metal fox is 'watch the aoes to tell you what lasers go first'
lilac crest
Red chocobo is pure aids even knwong the mechs
gentle lynx
yeah what Thaun said
odd yoke
Fucking tiny as fuck
lilac crest
Cant go on that fight without getting hit once
lilac crest
Shit is fucking aids
slim egret
idk that mechanic
gentle lynx
Red Comet has like one mech that gets me sweating and that's the one with two lines of chocobos
wary pond
it took me a while to figure out
while i learnt red chocobo in 2nd attempt
odd yoke
When all fire at onxe
lilac crest
YES THAT MECH I FUCKING HATE IT @gentle lynx
gentle lynx
those baited AoEs on the second run through are tight
slim egret
the main problem with chocobo i see most people have
is that rotating aoe catches them off guard
u move to center and go to where the aoe was after the cross
gentle lynx
it caught me off guard the first few times
gentle lynx
then i just thought about it later and remembered there's 4 safe spots and 2 rotating AoEs
gentle lynx
and it's like "ooooooh. You cheeky prick."
lilac crest
wary pond
i figured it out in like
lilac crest
What I do is
wary pond
2nd time
lilac crest
For that
cobalt ingot
the problem is if people don't go center and just keep walking around the edges they can drop aoes on the safe spot
wary pond
going there
lilac crest
I find the meteor thats on the safe spot
And go to that
Cause it’ll be safe after
But one fucking guy
Eats the meteor
Baits a puddle there
I get hit
lilac crest
Does that actually work
wary pond
yes
lilac crest
Dont I get a vuln
cobalt ingot
you won't qualify with reflect though
odd yoke
You still get vuln
lilac crest
Yeah thas what I’m talking about
maiden lodge
My luck on getting reflects has been bad
gentle lynx
Then i guess git gud :v
odd yoke
You can only reflect the rotating promixity meteors
slim egret
i learned that on my blm with stone skin
gentle lynx
i mean if you can't perfect the preliminary you're probably not gonna beat the solo
wary pond
meanwhile u cheese duels by reraising
lilac crest
Its always like 1-2 people chosen for duel during red chocbo
wary pond
lilac crest
Cause its so aids
gentle lynx
i usually have 4-6
lilac crest
😔
viscid monolith
The rotating black aoe meteors can't be reflected?
slim egret
i love the red chocobo fight
gentle lynx
Then again I'm on JP
slim egret
lol