So all my "Alfonse is crazy and sacrificing his siblings" ideas
#retired-patch-6-3-discussion
subtle pasture
rather, my new expectation for the twist is Allie is the baddie.
foggy coyote
How would that explain Allie seeming all reluctant and remorseful earlier in the storyline?
Cuz it wouldn't be like she'd need to fake it to anyone
subtle pasture
Distraction 
foggy coyote
Yes
subtle pasture
yes she's the surviving Werlyt girl
gaunt star
I still predict she is the only one who survives
Her brothers will all kill themselves
subtle pasture
Yeah either she's final girl vibes or
gaunt star
The head older brother will drive them to it
foggy coyote
I feel like they'll all die, tbh.
subtle pasture
Yeah my first idea was Alfonse spurred them into it, bc saw that joining the military was his idea
but, he's not the head of magitek development, Allie is
foggy coyote
I do, lmao
subtle pasture
which means she must have signed off on the new Weapons
foggy coyote
His tears sustain me
gaunt star
Even when he waa thr villain gaius was nowhere as heartless as every villain afterwards
Aside from the whole genocide against beast tribes
foggy coyote
The way milk sustains Valens
gaunt star
But that was more an empiee thinf overall
subtle pasture
Though this is quest 2 of 5, so not remotely the whole picture,
foggy coyote
And probably children
subtle pasture
but as it stands I like that they've pegged Allie and Alfonse as potential...
masterminds, of sorts
carmine basin
Do you guys think Gaius would survive to 6.0?
subtle pasture
I think Varro is an asshole but a red herring for the Weapons story tbh
...literally a red herring, fuckin' ginger hair and ruby armor
gaunt star
I think Gaius can survive and try to be the leader of rebuilding garlemald
subtle pasture
I think he will survive but I'm throwing hands if anyone lets him be a leader for more than some anti-Empire guerilla forces
subtle pasture
As it stands I think Gaius will die trying to take out Zenos
omfg you know what would be cool,
gaunt star
That I do expect
subtle pasture
he kills Fandaniel's vessel
gaunt star
Or he barely escaped
subtle pasture
and gETS POSSESSED BY HM
next orbit
Zenos can just get stupid-killed by Ascians for all I care
gaunt star
I think Gaius would kill himself before lettinf an ascian possess him
subtle pasture
For another thing I bet his red mask is Fandaniel's
and he killed his vessel before Asahi
half tendon
ascians shouldn't be able to possess gaius iirc
he's way too strong-willed and focused
gaunt star
Remember it being implied LONG ago
subtle pasture
he lets one possess before setting off bombs on his person
subtle pasture
Rather, if Gaius lets an Ascian possess him, it'd be voluntarily and to trap them
is what my idea for it would be
that or whips out a piece of auracite hidden on his person
which, still, to trap one
gaunt star
If you remember when Gaius and garuda are confrontinf each other
Garuda mentions "she has touched you:
subtle pasture
She said that to him? I don't recall that
next orbit
I thought that was directed to us?
gaunt star
Let me go back and check it
gaunt star
I just rewatxhed
Gaius speaks to garuda
Garuda sends ixal
he mows ixal down
Garuda gets pissed
Says he will suffer and that she smells her foul stench on yoj
She was looking straigjt qt gaius right after sending ixali at him.
next orbit
I mean Gaius wouldn't care for our Echo to be researched if he already had one no?
buoyant hatch
Also got to note we used hydealyn's magic on garuda to pull out the crystal
gaunt star
You don't have to have the ecjo to be touched by hyadelyn
Echo(
The ascians have it and they certainly aren't touched by hydaleyn.
But its all there in the video,
Plus there is the difference in both a blessing of light
And the echo
Minfiloa haf the echo but she didn't possess the blessing of light till she became oracld far as I recall
next orbit
At the time XIVth Legion only knows about the Echo. That's why Livia said Gaius was fascinated by the Echo and has Minfilia captured
gaunt star
Unless it was a plot thread they intended but forgot about I don't know what else to draw from Garuda's words
All the arr primals are aware of the blessing of hydalyen
And mention it in battlem
So *shrug(
And I mean gaius has killed overlords, he has red ascian masks yes,m
tough zinc
Ramuhs words were also kinda interesting, reflecting on them
gaunt star
You cannot kill thr ascian lords as simple as the lesser black mask ascianz
subtle pasture
I think she's speaking to both us and Gaius there
just kinda roping the mortals into one group
gaunt star
Maybe.
But the fact she directly repeats his taunt
After he kills her soilders.
Oh well who knows
She can't tell us bc she gor chomped by ultima lol
subtle pasture
I think she's also reacting to us fending off her temper
and yeeting a crystal from her
Unless cereulem might be connected to the Mothercrystal some way 
Like "that foul stench," I can't imagine ceruleum rounds don't have an odor
gaunt star
She also could be speaking metaphorical
subtle pasture
Of course, the "stench" of the blessing of light
wary perch
The piano eternal wind
gaunt star
Wait didn't that song come out yeats ago
Before shb
Years*
Its the same motiff found in the main shb theme
wary perch
It's original is from CT
gaunt star
Mmm so then Soken must have pulled it to serve as the foundation for shadowbringers music
With it revolving around ct so muvh
Much*
wary perch
It's been used in the shb intro movie also
gaunt star
Just been so long since I did ct storyline I forgot the music used in story cutscenes
One day I'll havw to do new game plus
Hw again 
unreal wadi
why is eternal wind so expensive anyways?
like, you need the easiest faded copies to make it 
gaunt star
New things
Supply and demand thats it
Unless its something like the ironworks crafyed gear from hw it will generally go down as more and more people get it
Is there even an equivalent to that in shb or is the best crafter gear just scrips now
ashen coral
We just got new sets of crafter/gatherer gear to make with 5.3
Odds are it'll be the last gear upgrade for ShB, besides the Skysteel tools
neat edge
Doing over heavensward in ng+ can go much faster than you remember it being xD
gaunt star
I rather it not go by fast since it was my favorite.
gaunt star
@drowsy belfry Can confirm you can get the tavern/bartender quest randomly still, just got it XD
rare sinew
Damn it. I've been so unlucky. No bar tender quest yet
Wonder if its due to me not doing the healer role quest?
Also, damn it, i purposely fucked up all the conversation choices
I hope i could redo
Nah. They like it anyway
noble jetty
bar tender quest?
gaunt star
You'll get it! Hang in there 😄
solar jolt
What is different between Shiva Unreal and her other versions?
thin crypt
left rivet
i still wanna know what the sad song is that plays after beating warrior of light REEEE
gaunt star
Um lemme check
There you go :3
What is different between Shiva Unreal and her other versions?
@solar jolt Unreal Shiva is the EX Shiva but scaled to our current level, nothing different but there's new rewards for it I think
rare sinew
Tomorrow and tomorrow is heart breaking
solar jolt
Alright, thank you
rare sinew
Like. Genuine tears from me
gaunt star
I use a Chrome extension that helps me identify music from videos, so usually I Youtube a MSQ cutscenes video and use it on the part I hear the music in... and it shows up, granted, sometimes its in Japanese and I have to google translate the words and find its equivalent title in English but sometimes it gives links
so ye... that's nice\
lunar hound
it's for people who never did Shiva EX the first time
soft gyro
well, as a dps/healer, they don't have to do anything
just the tanks have to deal with the positioning of the boss
we just have to stay right behind the boss
it had very very repeatedly mechanics
probably like 5 mechanics in total
ashen coral
And yet people struggle with that~
soft gyro
sure, when they manage to move while there is ice on the ground
soft gyro
but, as a tank, i would need to use by braincells
signal solar
good.
soft gyro
as a dps, that is unacceptable
ashen coral
...
drowsy belfry
@gaunt star Thank you!
gaunt star
^^
lunar hound
seeing so many people disappointed with the Torn from the Heavens remix from Puppet's Bunker. I love it
gaunt star
Hey memory and soul are both immaterial aether. So why can soul be stored inside white auracite but not memory?
lunar hound
I've never played NieR Automata so the Weight of the World track sounds great but has no additional meaning for me
formal solar
I recommend trying it out
lunar hound
probably should
even though it looks like a steampunk Kingdom Hearts with an even more convoluted story 😛
gaunt star
NieR isn't convoluted
subtle pasture
They may be immaterial but still wildly different types of aether, as we know, auracite can be more inclined to one or the other
The Scions have had auracite inclined to souls, the Bozjans and Ivalicians to memory
So the question is more why they didn’t just get the two types and synthesize somethin’ there
subtle pasture
But mnemonic attuned auracite seems to have, special origins, so 
gaunt star
I started to work stuff out from far at the back but that’s the question I’m at rn xD
subtle pasture
Dunno where the Bozjan Seers got their pieces from, yet. And Ivalician auracite was smithed by the High Seraph
Etc, etc
gaunt star
WoL could carry it from source to First?
There’s also synthetic auracite made by Garleans
Using Ultima weapon stuff
I mean they can make white auracite so why not the rest
subtle pasture
gaunt star
Me now
spare warren
your meme iz mine now
crimson pollen
more housing plots inc then
gaunt star
See garleans made those synthetic Auracites that can store memory to the point it can fully take over other people’s lives (sorrow of Werlyt) and yet G’raha used something never heard before
aLlAgAn Bl0oD
gaunt star
Allagan crystalline blood is corporeal aether
Which should have nothing to do with storing immaterial aether
Aetherial conductivity well has naught to do here
half tendon
does anyone have the uhhh
full text of greehee's final narration monologue over the zenos cutscene
knotty whale
gleaming bough
signal solar
yeah but fortuneteller
steep cape
all the way back..
lapis topaz
Where can I find the 5.3 datamined mounts?
forest magnet
She referred to us as of the Dusk Mother, but our name is Azem, that of the Dawn Father
lapis topaz
Thank you!
wary perch
Can't wait to get the tank and use it in bozja southern front
timid solstice
Does anyone know where to get the material for the new custom delivery?
late willow
The little market stalls you go to in the unlock quest
timid solstice
ok ty
timid solstice
yeah I wonder if it does anything at the end though
ashen wyvern
Here's the translation of the FR version of his dialogue + 5.3 scenes
For those interested
crimson pollen
oo teh dwarf doing that Russian dance
ashen wyvern
Linking his death scene in FR, https://youtu.be/-YwI9b1eLFI
When we know how bad the FR voices were back in ARR and in a few other instances, his fr va did an amazing job
little root
Has there been any list made of what actually changed with the revamped questline yet?
tribal plinth
There's someone playing through the MSQ on Reddit who's also shared the changes per quest or if they've been outright deleted
stuck yarrow
UGH I hate how this game automatically closes if you fail to connect to the data center
shrewd cypress
Hey guys Locke here. What if the ascian we see at the end of 5.3 is a part of our sundered soul 
Or whatever it’s called
echo orbit
hey guys locke there, what if elidibus was the original wol
or whatever they're called
shrewd cypress
I thought elidibus was a nerd
near berry
Lol
Also I am wondering about the last part of the cutscene where the Catboi talks as a narrator and say "the final chapter of this star"
Why did he make me feel this is the last expansion or the next one ;w;
gaunt star
WE'RE GOING TO THE MOON
severe brook
stuck yarrow
we also have
-We are Azem
shrewd cypress
But ye wouldn’t it be neat if the lowly sundered ascian was part of azem or something
The one we see with zenos
Would that make sense
shrewd cypress
Hey guys another question
stuck yarrow
Fandaniel is part of Fandaniel
shrewd cypress
What is amaurotine 
ashen wyvern
Amaurotine is 
stuck yarrow
people of Amaurot
pre sundering ascians
shrewd cypress
Ooh yeah
obsidian smelt
One question: since we wake graha up in the source, wouldn’t that mean that he won’t arrive to the first?
ashen wyvern
What do you mean
viscid monolith
He wouldn't go the first anyway because the 8th Calamity is prevented
stuck yarrow
Fandaniel is a shard of Fandaniel, Nabriales was a shard of Nabriales, Igeyorhm was a shard of Igeyorhm
ashen wyvern
Yeah
stuck yarrow
XIV uses the alternate timeline theory of time travel
viscid monolith
Ya there are multiple timelines
ashen wyvern
Interestingly even after fusing on the source, his soul is noted to be denser since he went through an eight rejoining
The source*
viscid monolith
Graha and the WoL are the densest in the world
ashen wyvern
Basically there are two people (as far as we know) who are 9/14 complete on the source, instead of 8/14 complete. G'raha and the wol
stuck yarrow
so in this timeline, the 8th Umbral Calamity never happened and G'raha was never awakened by the Ironworks lads in the future
ashen wyvern
Current timeline is adjusting to current present ye
stuck yarrow
but that timeline still exists, which is why he wasn't blinked out of existence after the calamity was averted
ashen wyvern
Yeah, it presumably exists in some other place of existence
stuck yarrow
F for the people in that timeline i guess
ashen wyvern
At least they were aware their own future wouldn't change
But were determined to give people from the past that chance
Well from our present
rugged basin
In short: Don't think about it too much. You'll get a headache.
rich otter
i wonder if we will ever go to the dragon homeworld
next quarry
Dragonstar?
rich otter
yeah
they were fighting a war of somekind
midgardsomner flew all the way to the source from there after all
drowsy ivy
running from omega
next quarry
Just omega as far as we know
drowsy ivy
was Dragonstar another shard or another planet entirely
does that make dragons an alien race
Would any dragons who are old enough remember the Amaurotines
drowsy ivy
yeah but hes in a coma charging from his encounter with Omega to save us
drowsy ivy
Would primals only have knowledge of what we believe them to have knowledge of
If the summoners dont know the answer neither would the Summon
I think.
drowsy ivy
She knew what ysale knew.
Ysale thought she was the og shva reborn
Turns out she was a cruel mockery
calm rock
I don't think the dragons would ever have met the Amaurotines, given that the Sundering happened long before Middy landed on Hydaelyn
drowsy ivy
It's assuming other dragons could cross the rift like muddy and the contacted amaurot
pastel coyote
what ?
gaunt star
nandatto
teal geyser
I think you forget just how far Middy traveled
was Dragonstar another shard or another planet entirely
does that make dragons an alien race
Would any dragons who are old enough remember the Amaurotines
@drowsy ivy also yes another planet and yes they are aliens
gaunt star
feelsMiddyMan
teal geyser
Hell Omega travelled so far he forgot how to go home
And Middy travelled it is implied he died
rich otter
his spirit still exists right?
stoic moss
Hell Omega travelled so far he forgot how to go home
@teal geyser isnt our omega
OUR omega?
like, FF constant omega
teal geyser
Yeah Verkas
stoic moss
someone can probably connect the amaurotians to dissidia
gaunt star
Not really
teal geyser
Dissidia is 90% FF1 anyway
stoic moss
ITS CONNECTED
gaunt star
You new to FF games?
gaunt star
Final fantasy references old games every so often
stoic moss
i mean
gaunt star
Just cause certain stuff get referenced, doesn’t mean anything
stoic moss
Persona Q is actually canon canon
just
"and then everyone forgot about it uwu" canon
tribal plinth
Persona q p3 or persona q p4
stoic moss
yes
Just cause certain stuff get referenced, doesn’t mean anything
@gaunt star dissidia is canon
in fact
@teal geyser look at my name, im gonna go preach to the sprouts
gaunt star
Sure, dissidia can be canon but it has no actual connection to FFXIV Amaurot
gaunt star
The WoL from FFXIV is his own thing separate from WoL of FF1
teal geyser
Technically Dissidia is like Persona Q
drowsy ivy
Dissidia is Canon
All crossovers are now canon
teal geyser
It's canon as far as there is no harm in it not
unreal hound
kefka real
stoic moss
you see
jokes are the deepest lore
we nasuverse now
omfg
Jokes ARE the deepest lore
remember that one mogmail?
what was it about?
the jp only christmas one
rich otter
is the heroes trial end boss a hint that we will get berserker class next expo?
stoic moss
yeah even less no
rich otter
was there a berserker class in ffxi?
drowsy ivy
Berserker is war but as a DPS 😈
gaunt star
Berserker looked like a Warrior using DRK weapon 
gaunt star
next expac its healer/caster probably
teal geyser
hopefully well get a sword using melee dps next expo
Already got samurai tyvm
gaunt star
and samurai was added with stormblood
hollow vessel
Berserker famously just auto attack class in most iterations of ff
gaunt star
soo uh yeah healer/caster definitely next
are those glitchy graphics normal please ?
buoyant crag
Normal
teal geyser
I don't see glitchy graphics
Oh wait
I see what you mean yeah it's normal
Mix of crystal corruption and stanky XIV textures
buoyant crag
I want his outfit
teal geyser
Just get concept matrix /s
gaunt star
i see
I know ffxiv textures are lil bit glitchy
but this is too much lol
too much squares
even if its square enix game
spiral mica
inb4 Chemist is added as a "caster" DPS class, that mixes volatile ingredients to make big splosions
gentle temple
If they do that alongside no healer there will be riots.
karmic walrus
Inb4 ast changed to dps, back to regen healer and shield healer we go! :D
heady shadow
I feel that not matter what they do, with what people post in OF, like those saying male viera thread deleted means no male viera
Or.
:yoshi p and devs are ;lazy for not making hats for the new races:
Or even what some say in general/
people will riot
becuse apparently the last several decades thats the only thing people know what to do to get what they want, when they probably wont.
like we will likely never get butt sliders T^T
stuck yarrow
There is a butt slider, you just have to complete copied factory to unlock it
unkempt pagoda
I still want a necromancer healer that tears life from the living as a bulwark against death
It could teach new healers that doing dps is actually a good thing!
north fulcrum
@rich otter WAR in FFXI was pretty much a berserker. It used the skill Berserk and generally used both 2H Axe and 2H Sword. That being said this Berserker is definitely based off the FF3 (or was it 5?) Zerker
north fulcrum
Naw, they're all throwbacks to other FF games
gentle temple
Wait, they deleted the male Viera thread?
heady shadow
ye
north fulcrum
Did they? Thank god
gentle temple
What the hell.
rich otter
why do people want male viera
heady shadow
guess there ws tipping point
north fulcrum
Because REEEEE MY BUNNY BOIS REEE
heady shadow
nd it ws better to just nuke it
gentle temple
Because some players like male characters?
heady shadow
i herd there ws nsty drm during the week
north fulcrum
and yet this still isn't deleted
heady shadow
thts becuse it is not in dnger of becoming politiclly chrged subject
wheres the vier thred tipped relly bd some dys
north fulcrum
viscid monolith
Haha this game's community is so quirky and not at all full of horny predators
stuck yarrow
because genderlocked races are dumb as shit and even Yoshi P has said so in the past?
north fulcrum
This shit is why every MMO makes fun of us
heady shadow
they didnt hve time to roll out both genders duh
north fulcrum
viscid monolith
The compromise was 1 gender from rach race
Devs wanted to add Hrothgar, players wanted Viera
north fulcrum
They've pretty much said they'll add the other sex later anyway. Just no timetable for it
They realize people want it
stuck yarrow
I get why they did it, it doesn't mean people who want both genders are dumb
stuck yarrow
it doesn't
north fulcrum
They really didn't want to do Viera but people really wanted it so it's a compromise for now
stuck yarrow
but i think the answer to "why do people even want a race to not be gender locked" is pretty obvious
north fulcrum
Give them time and they'll add the others. It's no big rush.
gentle temple
I'd have been less salty if they'd said resources was why from the start instead of claiming it was lore.
rich otter
i don't personally really care about that but i do wish se would add more cool looking races that arent furry's or.... furrys
viscid monolith
I think people are dumb for caring about cosmetic shit more than, you know, gameplay and content
north fulcrum
I agree Lance but
heady shadow
it honestly doesnt matter to me anywy
north fulcrum
games have become digital dressup now
heady shadow
since both rces seem incomplete nywy
north fulcrum
So many people just care about looking cute/cool instead of, you know, content
It's why I think transmog/glamour is a bad idea
heady shadow
no hats, need to spend 10+$ to chnge hroth hair
rich otter
looking cool is content for these people
and it is just as important for them then raids and new trials are for us
stuck yarrow
I don't think it's a bad idea to let people choose their own outfits lmao
empty ocean
Looking cool and grinding gear is a major part of why I do endgame content
heady shadow
I wont say everyone did it, To me, what killed me wanting to try either race was people from both sides being so vicious bout it.
good god, wait till 6.0 before taking out pitchforks
empty ocean
Don’t hold out hope for new races or genders though it isn’t happening if they can’t manage the limited races we have now
heady shadow
would help iof SE;s management wsnt so shit.
and the xiv team had more people.
which pretty sure it's not much bigger then skeleton crew
could be wrong so dont uote me
gentle temple
Considering the reward for gameplay is usually cosmetic shit, both are important
heady shadow
my opinion though might be considered invalid since I am in the camp of meh
gentle temple
I have complicated feelings about it.
For one, I expect better of SE in general and this team in particular. For another, they weren't honest. For another, not only did they release two incomplete things instead of one complete one, they fell into that old 'pretty ladies, big beastly guys' trope. Again, because they already did that with Au Ra...
heady shadow
well... the feeling I have is that sadly,
viscid monolith
Sadly they are correct to go that way
heady shadow
they are going to cater to their JP audience first.
viscid monolith
Because people overwhelming prefer small/slim cute women.
heady shadow
because apparently they dont 'complain abaout everything' like the rest of us do.
frozen spade
still not a single word on vier/hroth head gear as well since the launch of 5.0 of "please look forward to it"
empty ocean
If they wanted to make money the should have either made a normally built hrothgar or full viera race. Viera numbers are 4x that of hrothgar, making the latter a failed gamble
viscid monolith
The head gear thing is something to genuinely be upset about
pulsar yacht
surprised nobody on official form didn't just flat out say go play conan exiles (to anyone who wants a crotch slider)
frozen spade
not even a simple update of like this, "oh 50% of the helmets are working is our progess so far"
viscid monolith
I think they alway knew Hrothgar was going to be an unpopular race. They just wanted to add something different for a group that isn't normally catered to.
empty ocean
The problem is to give that update they would have to admit that they went about things the wrong way. They will not do that
frozen spade
or something would make since. Like all gear from 5.0 to 5.3 would work on viera hrothgar
¯_(ツ)_/¯
heady shadow
tbh... viera been dropping becuse of the hats
I know several who switched back because of it
viscid monolith
Same
frozen spade
I swapped to hrothgar in 5.0 and around 5.2 I swapped to male roe
gentle temple
See all this is forgetting that FF has an unusually large population of players who are female or otherwise prefer men.
So yeah, cute ladies are popular, but so are cute guys.
viscid monolith
Mhm. You're right. I do forget that.
gentle temple
Like. Look at the series as a whole, it's full of prettyboys.
So arguing that 'pretty female characters are the true moneymaker'rings kinda false.
This isn't your average game.
viscid monolith
It's why male au ra are so popular
drowsy ivy
But male au ra are ugly
gentle temple
See that's how I felt, but they can be surprisingly cute?
frozen spade
at least male aura have a varity of faces you can make unlike some races all 4 faces are very smiliar
now it would be cool if the horns could be changed like viera ears
gentle temple
Yeah. If they said 'instead of implementing the missing genders we're going to spend those resources on improving existing creation', I think they'd soothe a lot of people.
drowsy ivy
Get horns split from face options. People would really like that
gentle temple
There's a lot of things they could do, but they just seem to keep making bad PR choices about this.
frozen spade
or just not even talk about it
gentle temple
No, not talking about it doesn't help. Communication does.
Deleting that thread without a word just made me angry about something I had mostly calmed down about for instance.
frozen spade
like no info on the helmet siuation imo feels like its not a priory for the dev team as its been a year and no update about it.
empty ocean
Staying silent allows them to hide issues better
As for Au Ra horns they are fused to the face so I don’t see that being separated ever
gentle temple
It could happen, but they'd have to overhaul how character data works, iirc
Because there's x amount of data allowed for a character, and adding a separate creation slot for horns would put Au Ra over that.
heady shadow
1.0 left overs limitations
drowsy ivy
Redo elezen running animation pls
gentle temple
Though I wonder if they could get around that by just giving you 4 versions of each face, one with each horn option...
It's spaghetti code and probably also console limitations.
heady shadow
then it'll never get fixed if it's also a console limittion
gentle temple
Though I get the feeling they're finally having someone work on untangling the spaghetti behind the scenes now, so between that and moving to PS5 they'll probably be able to do a lot of stuff they couldn't before.
woven flame
I might be influenced by a certain game but.. anyone else feels like the new exarch isn't exactly him? I remember a certain topic from the game Soma where the fact that you copy someone's memories doesn't actually mean they're the original one. lol
heady shadow
we compied his memories nd took his soul
gentle temple
Isn't he a combination of the two? So he's not exactly him.
And he's not exactly the other guy
woven flame
Also, did we ever get an explanation on this scene?
gaunt star
what is there to explain?
woven flame
that scene in general, like I'm not sure who's talking there
maybe i'm just too dumb to realize lol
pastel coyote
G'Raha and Bigg the 3rd ?
turbid aspen
That was g’raha?
I wanted to know about the scene but i didnt know what to type into google
woven flame
because the context is the wol "dreaming that scene"
the explosion outside might be the black rose
gentle temple
Echo shenanigans waves hands like that guy from the Ancient Aliens show
teal geyser
That was G'raha
Black Rose isn't an explosion
that was probably rioting
and society collapsing
that kinda stuff
woven flame
Yeah, I guess that makes sense.
teal geyser
also I should remind you that G'raha was woken up post Black Rose
tough zinc
G'rahas memory of the future where he was trying to figure out from what moment in time he wanted to summon us. This was prior to being sent to the first.
woven flame
I guess somehow I tought G'raha never left the CT after being awoken in the future, but it makes sense that he had to make some research first.
floral schooner
Quick question; what happens if you get a full stack of a bit beserk in the new dungeon
frozen spade
you kill yourself
floral schooner
Rad
half tendon
what
frozen spade
you auto attack whoever you're targeting and you take all the damage you auto
half tendon
area warrior of light too angry to live
frozen spade
its funny to direct crit yourself
floral schooner
Thats actually really cool; i might have to do it on purpose (with whatever parties permission)
frozen spade
no I was auto'ing the boss and died in 3 hits with full stack of a bit beserk
frozen spade
no you auto whatever you are targeting and you take the full damage per auto
earnest sedge
Ah oh mb the context was "a bit berserk"
royal spruce
iron scaffold
Hero of her own story
iron scaffold
Im pretty sure he was a child Prodigy
half tendon
lemme find that one video from mgs5 that's just like
"Boss, you just killed a child... AMAZING, MISSION COMPLETE. THAT RIGHT THERE IS WHY YOU'RE THE BEST, BOSS"
that's the scions congratulating you for beating elidibus at the end of 5.3
iron scaffold
dude was a ghost and eons years old.....and a Primal
half tendon
not anymore, now he's dead
also without its heart...
what the fuck would zodiark even DO if someone somehow glued it back together
would it be a blind brute force or just a big, dumb salvation machine
or just sit there
iron scaffold
well Zodiark is pretty much gone, Eli is part of the CT and the remaining Ascian might not give a hoot about bringing Zodiark.
half tendon
on the subject of the remaining ascians:
I get this like
weird feeling that g'raha's ending monologue about "the beast" might not be talking about zenos?
i'm wondering if he's talking about Fandaniel or something
iron scaffold
it's hard to say but weirdos like Fandaiel is most likely going to start a lot of fires and him in the center likes it's opening night.
echo orbit
could be but elidibus refers to zenos as beast no?
drowsy ivy
How would he know about Fannyboy anyway
half tendon
well uhhh
I think all expansion start or end narration takes place at some vague point in the future?
They all kinda feel like someone's recounting the story to someone else later
zenith ether
was the ancient that summoned us in the seat of sacrifice Emet-Selch?
viscid monolith
Yes but not the real one
Emet Selch created Azem's crystal and seems to have in some kind of fail safe
zenith ether
Ah
viscid monolith
The fail safe being in his image
zenith ether
The same as the memories of the ancients roaming around Amaurot?
viscid monolith
Ya like them
gaunt star
Emet is a real bro
zenith ether
My favorite ascian of them all 
half tendon
worth noting that the failsafe idea is just shtola guessing blindly without having actually seen it
so we really have no idea
(heh, blindly)
viscid monolith
Well
It could be that we wished for the ghost of Emet Selch to come back and save us
Or wished for someone to save us and it just happened to be him
gaunt star
yee i prefer the failsafe tbh
drowsy ivy
I thought it was pretty simple
We nodded furiously at the crystal until it cast the magic that was sealed inside
It just happen to cast the most on the nose thing that Azem/WoL does
Gets a bunch of randos together to kick ass
I figured the shade of Hades was a bit of his mark at remaking the crystal that his friend hid their magic in.
we summoned ourselves back
eon literally became instant
stable island
I still have the feeling not everything has been answered yet about the WoL and Elidibus.
(Only Hydealyn and Zodiark know the whole story for sure.)
Oh yeah, saw the new 5.35 relics yet?
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/i9joiy/spoilers_53535_new_glowy_relic_weapons_bozjan/
gaunt star
yes
signal solar
hes not a child, my theory is that he was just sitting down after you killed the primal
stable island
True, i think that was Elidibus.
But still he also doesn't know the whole story. Only Zodiark and Hydealyn does.
The reason Elidibus acted like that in the story, was because his goal became an obession.
That is also why Hades or Emet-Selch helped us against him during the battle, he knew that Elidibus has become insane.
4.1, 4.4 and 4.5 foreshadowed the 6.0 story, so we are going into Garlemald for sure in 6.x to put down Zenos once and for all.
magic holly
Elidibus being an eternal child in paralel to Unukalhai being one as well makes a lot of sense to me. Explains why he took him from the 13th
stable island
That makes sense yes.
It was indeed Elidibus that destroyed the 13th shard.
The final Role quest also explains why Ardbert's group was set-up by the acsians, their 6th traveling companion was promised something by Elidibus a promise he was not intending to keep in the first place.
gaunt star
Igeyorhm destroyed it tho
gaunt star
and it was their first attempt at a rejoining too afaik
but Iggy still didnt take it well regardless
stable island
It was true that Igeyorhim destroyed the 13th shard my mistake.
--
Cylva does mention something at the end of the 5.2 MSQ if you can choose her, i understand why Yoshi-P made the trial hidden, but Cylva did actually asked us to fight him, so some of us already knew.
But the primal he summomed can't be Azem, because Azem is the one standing before him.
That makes me wonder, why did Elidibus used WoL from other shards to fight us? That seems strange to me, he also just could have summoned Ascian footfolk.
gaunt star
hes not a child, my theory is that he was just sitting down after you killed the primal
@signal solar
He uses a child model
yea
i model swamped to Elidibus once matrix was fixed
it was a child model indeed
drowsy ivy
He always ddi stand out
white robe versus the black
Child body vs being a tallboi
gaunt star
White robe was just due to his title as Elidibus/Emissary
so that doesnt mean much
Elidibus became Zodiarks heart while he was still a kid probably 
drowsy ivy
Putting a child on one of the seats in what I assume is your government
seems like not a bright idea
I think he just reverted to the form of a child to really hammer in the idea that things make sense again just before he dies
subtle pasture
LOL, so i went to look up Heroes' Gauntlet on fflogs, to see what our buddies used,
gaunt star
Doesnt matter really
subtle pasture
Giott's LB is literally "Dwarven Decking"
unique verge
Except that's specifically addressed in one of the echo flashbacks.
gaunt star
boy or not the results dont change
unique verge
I cant go fetch it at the moment, but paraphrasing, one of the two ancients (either Lahabrea or Igeyorhm) say something along the lines of "everyone thought you werent ready for this position, but how wrong they were"
Youth would be an excellent reason for universal agreement on not being ready
subtle pasture
"And to think, some thought you unfit for your office."
gaunt star
how u even know it was Lahabread and Igeyorhm xd
unique verge
Datamine
gaunt star
worry
drowsy ivy
I can see the implication but it isnt rock solid evidence that they were a child.
Voices and the crystals he holds at the end.
subtle pasture
Uh, w-where
unique verge
someone datamined the voice id's. all the ancients have unique voice sounds.
subtle pasture
Like what identifies those Convocation Speakers as Ancients
unique verge
and in those scenes, its Laha and Iggy
gaunt star
fair
subtle pasture
Uh could you show that
drowsy ivy
inb4 Laha and Iggy where his parents
unique verge
I'd have to find i
*it
someone posted that shit in ehre though
Let me see if i can track it down
Got it
unique verge
Laha/Iggy were pretty close with Elidibus, which at the time of posting this someone made the excellent point of that's probably why he sent the WoD after us when he did - we had just killed his two best friends (or perhaps something more)
subtle pasture
So they used the audios from... when were those audios used initially
rain onyx
Does it label all the other members?
rain onyx
Aw
subtle pasture
Hm, I'd imagine those audio files might just be used like,
unique verge
but i had mentioned the idea which caused someone to post it
that all of the ancients had unique voice sounds
subtle pasture
male ascian, female ascian, so I doubt it's directly Ige and Laha
unique verge
and figured we could line them up
subtle pasture
if that makes sense
unique verge
Nah
Everyone has a unique sound
you can confirm for yourself by listening with music off
subtle pasture
Can I get the source on that
unique verge
The voice that speaks when you invoke the Azem crystal, for example, is invariably Emet-Selchs
yet sounds nothing like the voices in the cutscene that the datamine above references, neither of which sound anything like each other
etc.
subtle pasture
I mean if people datamine it it'd be better to just see the file names associated then going by ear.
unique verge
Yeah if i had them i'd post them
I dont
But i recognized that the voices were different, and thats how i ended up having someone post that
Presumably others can be identified though
subtle pasture
Well I'm gonna doubt "each ancient has a unique voice," then
unique verge
As i said
you can go confirm it yourself
turn off music so it doesnt distract you
subtle pasture
subtle pasture
No, I mean Ancients in general, lol
unique verge
I mean, i assume that "generic NPC" has a generic one
but the unique ones are associated specifically with ones we know by name
subtle pasture
I mean again, my takeaway from the Convocation speakers isn't that it's literally Laha and Ige, but a man and a woman
if that makes sense
Like using a masculine warble and feminine warble
unique verge
Well, i disagree wholly, but whatever.
subtle pasture
this is why datamining stuff like this is stupid anyhow
if it's meant to be a mystery or meant to just be ambiguous
"bUT THEY USED THIS FILE--"
sick moon
If you're not going to at least try and see if they have unique voices, you're being arrogant, just saying
subtle pasture
well there's a finite amount of soundbits, so
subtle pasture
I'm not doubting there's a variety of soundbites, I'm doubting they're all wholly unique ones,
but what's the point of going by ear if someone can just confirm it w/ the filenames
zenith ether
Wait, another ascian is in the play? I’m at the zenos and white robed figure cutscene
subtle pasture
I'm not saying "All Ancients use the same audio" I'm saying "don't trust how those soundbites are named"
sick moon
subtle pasture
And yeah Not!Asahi did turn out to be an Ascian
sick moon
Why even both arguing if you're refusing to even consider the other side
stable island
Another thing we don't know the answer yet, who are the 12 others with Venat that summoned hydealyn?
sick moon
We know Azem was neutral thru it all
stable island
And not all Ascians of the convocation are known yet.
sick moon
So itd have to be the unsundereds and maybe fandaniel
unique verge
So you can go read them and decide for yourselves.
sick moon
Some other unnamed
stable island
I think Zodiark decided to join Zenos somehow.
We know Elidibus split with Zodiark.
unique verge
@rain onyx since you expressed interested
https://github.com/xivapi/ffxiv-datamining
Navigate to /csv/cut_scene/ and look in the ones that say "initial Patch 5.3 update". the files in there will have the text alongside the voice label.
/053/VoiceMan_05300.csv seems to have some of the things i referenced.
Amusingly, Exarch is still labelled as "MYSTERYVOICE" which someone brought up the day the mine got posted
zenith ether
Does this mean ShB is concluded? Zenos and the white robed figure will be continued in the next expansion?
unique verge
No?
It means the main story that started in 5.0 are concluded
We still have 2 major patches and potentially 3 minor patches of stuff between now and the next expansion.
Most likely Zenos and Fandaniel will be prominently featured in those as the buildup for 6.0 happens.
zenith ether
I see, thank you
subtle pasture
Huh, but he's labelled GRAHATIA in the very end, weird
stable island
The ShB story already started in 4.4 partly.
unique verge
@subtle pasture its because its a different voice, somewhat
I'm sure its easy enough to notice
stable island
Balmerick, 3 mayor patches, the x.5 patch is always split in two.
unique verge
that the Exachs voice and G'raha's voice dont sound quite right.
Err
dont sound quite the same
which makes perfect sense, considering one is in his ~20's and the other one is going on 2 centuries old
lol
subtle pasture
Yeah but still the same VA and recording, so surprised it warrants the diff labelling
Hm, there is one thing I wanna check
but Idk how to
...find a datamine of patch 2.3
sick moon
Technically 5.3 marked the end of ShB as a story, though.
stable island
@unique verge
Crystal Exarch is 326 years old.
G'raha is 26 as stated in 1st lorebook
sick moon
5.4 and forward are prologues to 6.x
subtle pasture
I wanted to test if Laha and Ige's voice sfx are masucline warble-feminine warble
by comparing to the sfx used in the Chrysalis scene back then
but, hah, finding that old stuff 
unique verge
Eh, 2 centuries, 3 centuries, point remains the same.
stable island
Sona, 6.x actually started already in 4.4, same drill as ShB. (Foreshadowed in 3.4)
True Balmerick
unique verge
Ones old as fucking shit, the other one is in his 20's. The voice will change.
sick moon
gaunt star
I think that Hythlodeus IS Emet-Selch. This is based off of two things... one is that the name Hythlodeus refers to a character in greek literature who always referred to themselves in the third person (As in they spoke of themselves as if talking about another person), the second is that Emet-Selch is very likely Nald'Thal, who has a dual nature as a god. The third point is that Hythlodeus was likely Emet-Selch's recollection of himself before Zodiark.
half tendon
no
sick moon
Emet Selch is obviously the bird, duhhhhh
subtle pasture
Technically not wrong, the Shade of Hythlodaeus may as well be an extension of Hades,
but in the short story, distinctly diff dudes
unique verge
Hmmm
stable island
Possible
gaunt star
This is bolstered by the fact that ALL Of the convocation are the twelve, with Elidibus standing apart as the heart of Zodiark, and Azema Standing apart as the wanderer.
unique verge
That's an assumption.
subtle pasture
The short story is what proves Hythlo's existence, yes.
If we only had the Shade, it could be theorized
half tendon
the short story Through His Eyes has them in the same room and talking to each other
sick moon
If the twelve convo are the actual twelve, it brings up a lot of questions
unique verge
There has not been any proof that the convocation are actually "the twelve" its a popular theory, but its just that at this point. a theory.
subtle pasture
They also bonded due to their similar gifts, I presume.
sick moon
Like how did they come to be as such deities
stable island
I think the Twelve are the ones that summoned Hydealyn.
subtle pasture
See but that would basically mean,
What Zodiark did w/ Elidibus, sent him out as an emissary after the ritual?
Hydae did that twelve times
unique verge
I dont know that there's any reason to assume that the 12 exist at all.
There's been no reasons to assume that, if anything the game has shown us repeatedly why there's no reason to assume they exist.
subtle pasture
I could see the Twelve as basically twelve Words of the Mother
sick moon
The 12 could be simply akin to Greek gods
subtle pasture
For one thing, the idea of the ~whorl~ they originated from,
half tendon
i cannot reasonably see hydaelyn going "I'M TWELVE GUYS NOW"
unique verge
Every "god" has been proven to be a "primal" thus far. Why should the twelve be any different?
subtle pasture
is an idea enforced by Hydaelyn, when the Word spoke to us
half tendon
Louisoix did literally summon the 12 as über primals during the end of 1.0
subtle pasture
The "whorl" is part of her lie in that scene, and it so happens to be connected to the Twelve, too
stable island
They exist Balmerick.
Louisoix almost summoned them durung the 7th calamity.
subtle pasture
Those effigies were admittedly primals,
and were summoned in their stead, for another
stable island
We know Zodiark and Hydealyn are elder primals
sick moon
I think the major issue right now is that the WoL, in their past life, was extremely ANTI primal, but now they're basically under the control of one
drowsy ivy
always have been
half tendon
i dunno about basically under the control of
subtle pasture
Well, we're not under the control of one, but Mommy Crystal has a lot of things to answer for
half tendon
i feel like at this point if you told the WoL to elbow drop hydaelyn they'd go "yeah ok sounds good"
stable island
Sona, that is not 100% confirmed now.
It is possible it has the protection from something else.
subtle pasture
So the issue is more,
"we have no means to contact Hydaelyn"
"but when we do, we HAVE A LOT OF WORDS"
teal geyser
i feel like at this point if you told the WoL to elbow drop hydaelyn they'd go "yeah ok sounds good"
I wouldn't
She hasn't done anything untoward yet
And she's only helped us
sick moon
The issue is that she is a primal though
teal geyser
Doesn't mean much
gaunt star
Yet isn't doing anything harmful
teal geyser
It implies things but nothing that can be confirmed
teal geyser
Not necessarily
subtle pasture
which is even more confusing
teal geyser
I'm not sure why that is a problem in of itself
gaunt star
The twelve were summoned in the form of large glowing sigils with crystal shards used to submit the binding of Bahmat
half tendon
so like... i found a copy of the DS version of final fantasy 3, right
gaunt star
Perhaps the twelve are just the PRIMAL versions of the Convocation.
rain onyx
IMO I think Hydaelyn/Zodiark are “exception” primals since they were created rather than summoned, so they probably don’t only drain Aether
half tendon
and eternal wind playing at the start is already kinda fuckin me up after ShB
gaunt star
As a thing need not be real to be summoned.
teal geyser
Hydaelyn was summoned by ancients, bit sundered people who struggle with creation magic. Who knows what the differences are
Maybe primals suck the land dry because they are forced to because they are being summoned by sundered people who suck at it
subtle pasture
For one thing Hydaelyn, and presumably Zodiark, lack 100% physical forms, which is when primals became dangerous, really.
sick moon
She and Zodiark are the exact same type of "Ancient Primal" or "Super Primal" or whatever, but at the same time, we have no true evidence that either of them is evil. All we know is the Ascians are trying to reset and restore their star, but Zodiark himself hasn't really done much afaik.
sick moon
The WoL just has infinite plot armor
teal geyser
@sick moon outside of Elidibus wanting to genocide
Seeing as Elidibus and Zodiark are closely linked
unique verge
I'm sorry, what?
subtle pasture
I think you could read it as like,
sick moon
Elidibus was a weird hybrid primal
subtle pasture
Zodiark is a primal for the Ancients only,
unique verge
but Zodiark himself hasn't really done much afaik.
@sick moon
I feel like you've missed an incredibly large plot point.
subtle pasture
Hydaelyn, as his counterpart, is for all life
teal geyser
Elidibus is Zodiark's heart
unique verge
Prior to the creation of hydaelyn and the sundering, Zodiark ate like, half the fucking population.
teal geyser
To be fair Bal
rain onyx
And then another half
half tendon
to be entirely fair i don't think he chose to do that
teal geyser
That was to save the world
subtle pasture
3/4ths of the survivors, to be specific
unique verge
I mean, sure
gaunt star
@unique verge no. 3/4ths
subtle pasture
Mind you, the first wave isn't exactly, like....
gaunt star
half and then half AGAIN. Half to summon Zodiark, and half to restore life to the devastated world
subtle pasture
...his fault
teal geyser
Pragmatic even
subtle pasture
which is weird to say
rain onyx
The people afraid of Zodiark also weren’t sure if Zodiark still needed more sacrifices
sick moon
"Evil" was more what I meant.
subtle pasture
I can understand the second wave of sacrifices, which purified the planet.
but the issue there is those sacifices were likely done by tempered.
sick moon
Hes done things but not really a lot eith purely evil intentions
teal geyser
Seems like Zodiark couldn't keep the world fixed unless he kept eating tbh
That's my interpretation
unique verge
Which....interestingly
sick moon
He is a primal designed to save a planet from destruction, not to murder and kill
unique verge
Would mean that Zodiark at the very least functions pretty much exactly like a standard primal, no?
half tendon
I'm still not sure about attributing the initial summoning's sacrifices to zodiark and saying "he killed them"
unique verge
has to keep feeding on aether
gaunt star
So here's a question... if Zodiark dies, does the magicks that made it all possible die with him?
subtle pasture
Close enough, sure. That was the notion we were given
sick moon
Primals are a disaster in and of themselves
teal geyser
Not necessarily Bal
subtle pasture
Mommy Crystal kicked his nuts before that hit crtiical mass, tho
so we'll never know
sick moon
They're like living contradictiond
half tendon
HYDAELYN, SMACK HIS NUTS
unique verge
I suppose its possible that he operates on specifically eating living souls or something, but
The parallel is certainly there i would think
sick moon
YOU STOP THAT
teal geyser
Just existing might not drain aether but if Zodiark was doing something intensive he'd need more. Primals aren't infinite in power
subtle pasture
For one thing, Elidibus, as the Word of the Father and later WoL Incarnate, didn't seem to have a similar hunger
unique verge
Its also possible that his initial creation gave him a uh, juiced up battery
subtle pasture
...but his Hope certianly was very similar too
sick moon
The other thing is that zodiark is innately the most powerful primal
teal geyser
Him eating people isn't proof that the ancient primals would actually take from the environment
unique verge
and that should he persist in existing long enough he would start draining like everything else
sick moon
Hydaelyn barely contained him
half tendon
i mean yeah i cannot imagine zodiark needing to eat much aether after being created because like...
sick moon
And her entire purpose was to do so
subtle pasture
Hydaelyn's Enervation was a specific counter to his potency as well,
teal geyser
and that should he persist in existing long enough he would start draining like everything else
@unique verge maybe but that's conjecture
tough zinc
Makes me think what the exact reason was for Azem to oppose the summoning. Maybe Azem was privy to some sort of information that changed their vision on the issue, like someone intentionally manipulating things into escalating the way they did, aka playing the convocation and the events to unfold as they did for a yet unknown ulterior motive.
teal geyser
Nothing can really be proven
half tendon
assuming there were a lot of ancients, which there must have been based on how big amaurot is
that's like
gaunt star
@sick moon Hydaelyn is stronger with her one ability; splitting things.
half tendon
"i have an aether reserve the size of several thousand Hades, at minimum"
unique verge
Sure, we're all speculating on fragments of info at this point.
subtle pasture
Honestly it gave me the impression that, Hydaelyn like,
inherently, cannot destroy something
sick moon
Ehhhh yes and no
subtle pasture
only sunder it.
teal geyser
I just hate people who go "fuck Hydaelyn she's clearly evil" when there are really limited things that support that in a grey area
unique verge
Saying that authoritatively is probably silly
However, the question does beg itself
teal geyser
It is silly
subtle pasture
She's no more evil than that Windows paperclip is, tbh
gaunt star
@tough zinc It is possible that Zodiark existed before the Ascians summoned him. I've always speculated...
subtle pasture
bc I think she's being shown more and more to be like,
unique verge
We've had conversations with Hydaelyn directly, via Minfillia as the Oracle as well.
subtle pasture
an AI of sorts
unique verge
the question begs itself - why did she not explain this shit to us
sick moon
Literally until fandaniel or some other ascian tells us more info, we have little vital information about the nature of either side of conflict
unique verge
Certainly it would be obvious that were we to find out on our own, it would not be a good thing compared to hearing it from her.
gaunt star
@sick moon you really gonna trust Ascians who have been tempered to give an unbiased version of events?
half tendon
how would hydaelyn even begin to explain that
subtle pasture
And we lost her mouthpiece 
sick moon
All we know is zodiark had to keep eating, hydaelyn was designed to stop him, and split the star into 15
The source and 14 reflections
subtle pasture
But yes, she did lie about the origin of the world, her and Zodiark, but,
unique verge
We dont need to count on tempered Ascians. The Hydaelyn/Zodiark revelation came from the ronkan ruins.
teal geyser
the question begs itself - why did she not explain this shit to us
@unique verge
A) limited time
B) not need to know
C) probably best to keep that secret so people like Varis don't try to make a master race
Etc etc
subtle pasture
given her duties, i think it's a white lie within her sphere
unique verge
Unless you're proposing that Emet-Selch painted those walls himself to put on a good show for us.
subtle pasture
It prob was like, a conscious decision from Venat,
to not let the sundered life know what graves and ashes they step on
sick moon
I'm one of the ones that doesnt trust those with massive secrets, so I choose to suspect hydaelyn of hiding something really bad from us
subtle pasture
It's all fallout, literally fallout by the lengths she went to stop Zodiark harvesting more life
so it's definitely gray as hell morally
teal geyser
to not let the sundered life know what graves and ashes they step on
Or what they could become with genocides
sick moon
Mostly because itd make for a good twist
teal geyser
Predictable twist at this point Sona
unique verge
Perhaps not Hydaelyn directly explaining it then - but Minfillia when we showed up on the First with Emet-Selch in tow surely could have been like "hey uh, btw, there's some shit you need to know"
sick moon
gaunt star
Bad storytelling, do not tell, show.
teal geyser
Minfilia when we...went to Amh Araeng?
tepid grove
Why was i tagged here? @gaunt star
teal geyser
We already knew what happened basically by that point
unique verge
I would think so, yes. When we are able to speak to her directly.
teal geyser
She didn't have much more to tell us at that point
Also
It wasn't your moment
That was a Ryne moment
unique verge
It just seems strange to not take the opportunity to give us "her side" of events, so to speak.
teal geyser
Besides that's Minfilia not Hydaelyn
sick moon
Maybe she had nothing to say
teal geyser
I'm not sure how much Minfilia can tell is when she isn't that connected to Hydaelyn
gaunt star
@tepid grove Mistake.
unique verge
Maybe. Maybe when we track down Venat (since you know that'll happen at some point) or Venat's crew, we'll find out why.
unique verge
I dont think "Hydaelyn is evil" is a valid option though. Because if she were, we'd be tempered already.
subtle pasture
Also, as far as "Hydaelyn is hiding something really bad from us."
I'm p sure that's uh,
gaunt star
So.... it is possible that Hydaelyn summoned us as a hail mary. Lahabrea said she was weakening and had been for some time.
teal geyser
Yeah....
gaunt star
Like Elidibus is Zodiark's heart, I think that Azema became Hydaelyn's
teal geyser
We kinda found out that skeleton
unique verge
....no
teal geyser
We know that was Venat though
teal geyser
Unless you think they did a swapsy last second
subtle pasture
But again it's like, it's not black and white, Zodiark wasn't solely evil, Hydaelyn wasn't purely good.