retired-patch-6-3-discussion

[gaunt star]

Eh, seems kinda niche

And not very appealing

[rain badger]

that'd be hard to balance I think

if it was the best

no one would use any other healer

[sick moon]

The whole point is that it's a gimmick

[rain badger]

cause it'd have high skill ceiling

[sick moon]

Like astro

[rain badger]

and end game

people want to use the best p_p

if the gimick wasn't strong enough

then it just wouldn't be used

cause the downside is too much

[pine epoch]

Chemist as a healer would be interesting, Mixing Chemicals together to form potions of wide range of effects. LB3 you pat yourself down and pull out every vile you have and throw it into the air and they explode raining its liquid down rezzing everyone

like default Cure 1 benefict heal would just be

Potion Toss

[rain badger]

tbh if they DO do chemist

I can definitely see them revamping the rez system

which wouldn't be a bad thing tbh

[sick moon]

My wonder tho is what would be the gimmick for chemist

[rain badger]

it'd fix a lot of the problems with casters RN

[sick moon]

Like what effect specialty

[rain badger]

the gimick for chemist would be mudras

[pine epoch]

the Gimmick would probably be its own version of Mudra

like how Dancer has its own version

[rain badger]

you use mudras to cast higher potency heals lol

mix ingredient a b c to max elixir

mix ingredient b a c to make high potion

etc etc.

[unique verge]

Well

it would probably be more like

[rain badger]

tfw mega potions don't heal the party in XIV pepehands.jpg

but they COULD

[unique verge]

Mix ingredient A B C to do big heal, mix ingredient A B B to do Regen, etc.

[rain badger]

if they added chemist

[sick moon]

So literally brewing in the middle of a fight to increase healing potency

That sounds not fun imo

[rain badger]

I mean

that's literally ninja

LOL

[pine epoch]

I feel Chemist weapon would be a Magitek arm cannon Crossbow. to shoot Chemicals and potions at people

[rain badger]

ALA X-2 Alchemist?

I'd be down

[unique verge]

Yeah but MCH already uses something like that?

[pine epoch]

not really

[rain badger]

If its X-2 Alchemist, they can mix shields

[pine epoch]

they have a crossbow

but its not a arm cannon

[rain badger]

cause in X-2 the mix system had like...

rows upon rows of different mix combinations

[forest magnet]

dancer uses the same system too

[rain badger]

like you could cast mighty guard on everyone

[unique verge]

Not really. Dancer system isnt really analogous at all

[sick moon]

The difference is that ninja can do it quickly to summon different attacks, while dance has a rhythm system - similar but not the same

[unique verge]

since there isnt any choice in teh Dancer system

[pastel coyote]

well chemist skill could work like nin mudra ?

[unique verge]

You either do it correctly or you dont

[sick moon]

Putting that on a healer would suck ass

[rain badger]

not really lol

[sick moon]

I dont think yall realize that

[rain badger]

it'd only be the oGCD heals

that have that

[forest magnet]

yeah cuz you'd have no instant heals from your main gimmick

[rain badger]

its not possible to have GCD heals be that

[sick moon]

Exactly

Healers need to heal NOW

[pastel coyote]

well you don't need to make a do or die system like the nin

[rain badger]

uhhh that's not necessarily true

[sick moon]

Not in 5 seconds when the potion is cooked

[rain badger]

especially in high end optimized raids

typically you let the regens do their work

[forest magnet]

that would make chemist a terrible prog job

[unique verge]

Yeah, but

At the same time, the point stands

[rain badger]

not necessarily p_p they'd trade off mixing

for higher potencies

[pastel coyote]

but more like 1 pot => heal 1 ; 2 => heal 2 ; pot 1 + pot 2 => aoe heal

[rain badger]

so you'd just do AoE shield mix

every single time

[glacial turret]

Chemist just doesnt work in this game unless its skills are just basic ‘throw potion’ aka cure 1 ‘throw hi potion’ aka cure 2

[unique verge]

if chemists oGCD's were NIN like

they'd be default be inferior to stuff like Tetra

[glacial turret]

And that would be awfully boring

[unique verge]

because they'd take longer to do, and would clip more casts

[sick moon]

It could take a self buffing system, where it drinks potions to increase potencies

[pine epoch]

Yet Chemist would work with mudra @glacial turret

[sick moon]

That would work

[glacial turret]

Yes

[rain badger]

they wouldn't need EVERY oGCD heal to come from mix though

[pine epoch]

Mudra is essentially the Mix system

[glacial turret]

But the chance of messing it up and not healing quickly is also a risk

[rain badger]

thats the thing

because its 6.0

[pine epoch]

It would be a decent skill level

[rain badger]

that means the level limit will be 90

which means that they can dedicate like what

3 skills to mix?

and the rest will be the normal generic healer kit

[stuck yarrow]

if you could mix buffs and shit that could be interesting but then that'd just make AST even worse lmao

[rain badger]

1 weak heal

1 strong heal

1 oGCD heal

1 AoE oGCD heal

[sick moon]

A mudra healing system would be clunky and slow, it wont fit no matter what

[rain badger]

1 AoE GCD heal

that still leaves them with like

the entirity of their repetoir

every healer has the above

chemist would have all the above

but + mix

[sick moon]

Chemist would like take a buffing or mixed heal type system

Likely*

Like self buffing

[stuck yarrow]

Since we've kinda established that there's shield healing and regen healing and doing both
It would be interesting if the next healer got its own thing but i have no idea what that would be lmao

[rain badger]

tbh

I hope that they

[rain badger]

break off regen / shield from astro

and make it one or the other

[sick moon]

Oh my gosh he was?

[rain badger]

that way they can do what they have with tanks

where 4 tanks 4 healers

2 shields 2 regen primary

[radiant badger]

So make it either a knockoff WHM or SCH.

[stuck yarrow]

that'd just ruin ast even more lmao

[rain badger]

not necessary

[lilac stag]

So in order to make a 4th healer we have to gut the best Healer in the game?

[rain badger]

like 95% of people already play Diurnal anyways

lmao

cause its pretty much better in 95% of the situation

[stuck yarrow]

idk i guess chemist could do like
A defense buff

[radiant badger]

I'm pretty sure in case of actual healing WHM has AST beat?

[sick moon]

I did think of that lemme

[lilac stag]

Not really. Thats because everyone has Scholar leveled up because Summoner

So you always got a Shielder

[sick moon]

A system where potions could buff defenses temporarily or grant other buffs

Similar to what astro used to be

[rain badger]

you objectively do not need to heal as nocturnal though p_p

if you can survive the hit

you don't need the shield

[sick moon]

But yknow

No randomness

[rain badger]

and if you do need the shield use your oGCD AoE shield

its the same way scholar is

they aren't so much "shield healer" right now

as much as they are "oGCDs up the ass hole" healer

since the only time people shield if it they are going to die

[sick moon]

So astro becomes the dual healer and chemist becomes the tru buff healer, probably with slightly weaker regeneration heals

As to not power creep whm

[lilac stag]

Cause you use the shields to prevent damage once you know the fight

[rain badger]

no you dont lol

you 100% only shield

if you are going to die

if you are GCD shielding

then you are losing DPS

[radiant badger]

I'd personally rather see chemist as a more heal-focused SCH, with less utility

[rain badger]

why bother shielding 100 damage

when the regen

[radiant badger]

Fewer tools, but better actual healing

[rain badger]

can heal you to full

cause there's 30 seconds

before raid wides

[sick moon]

How would that work though

[radiant badger]

But there's the problem with shields breaking mechanics.

So.

[sick moon]

Potions are better known for having wildly varied effects

But anything is possible

[rain badger]

if anything

shielding BEFORE knowing the fight

[radiant badger]

What're you gonna do, smash people with glass bottles?

[rain badger]

is better for prog

[sick moon]

YES

[rain badger]

idk maybe they just make

[sick moon]

BAR FIGHT

[rain badger]

alchemist mix a DPS skill

where its similar to white mage

you use 1 heal

that gives you a mix charge

you use a different heal

thats a different mix charge

3rd heal different mix charge

you use mix to throw a huge nuke at people

and the nuke changes depending on which heals you have used

[sick moon]

That system wouldnt work either

[rain badger]

its pretty much

just missery though

LOL

misery*

[glacial turret]

Its too variable

Because it would affect the results

[sick moon]

It's too reliant on weaving damage with heals

[glacial turret]

For proper ‘mixing’

[rain badger]

P_P like

with misery?

its literally misery but with a different effect lol

[glacial turret]

Then whats the point if its just basically whm

Except with throwing potions

[sick moon]

Square wants money, and money goes away when the new class makes you not want to play

[rain badger]

idk thats the hard thing

I mean they literally released gun breaker lol

[sick moon]

So they cant do an experimental system

[rain badger]

they could literally just have the nuke be the fire / water / ice / lightning gems from X

[heady shadow]

watched Draks reaction to Seto.
fuck.

[rain badger]

where its like fire = highest potency

water = 2nd highest debuff

I mean square isn't afraid of doing

"only physical damage" buffs

or "only magical damage" buffs

the only issue is that the magical damage one would be kinda garbo

unless the % damage was increase

d

but then they'd do something like have x3 caster comps

and that way

chemist then gets an opener

where they want to apply (pretty much trick attack on a healer)

on the boss

considering divination / trick attack / etc etc etc.

are pretty much just the same

[radiant badger]

I mean RDM has a magic specific buff and it's not that bad.

If it is bad, it's not because it's magic specific.

It's because it fucking decays before you can do much with it

Oh wait

!action embolden

[lusty shadow]

**Embolden** : lvl 58 RDM (120.0 second cooldown)(Instant cast time)

Increases own magic damage dealt by 10% and physical damage dealt by nearby party members by 10%. Both effects are reduced by 20% every 4s.
Duration: 20s

Powered by XIVAPI

[radiant badger]

It does do both now.

Derp.

The decay on it is still actually ass though.

[ashen coral]

It's always been magic on self/phys on others IIRC

[radiant badger]

Wait that's a melee buff for everyone else.

Wtf.

[rain badger]

ye

[static niche]

yeah

rdm is a magic dps that boost physical dmg

XD

[lunar hound]

to be fair, neither BLM or SMN need an extra damage buff

[ashen coral]

indeed

[tough fern]

Blm does not need any buffs tbh

Fine where it is

[pine epoch]

Smn and BLM are honestly fine as they are now.

[radiant badger]

Fair.

Still kinda dumb though.

[tough fern]

It's purpose is to dish out top tier damage and that's what it does

[pine epoch]

Smn most I can say remove summon bahamut and just attatched demi bahamut to dreadwyrm trance

[tough fern]

5.0 changes has made blm near perfect

[radiant badger]

Idk I was thinking of the idea of turning RDM into a chaincaster instead of a dualcaster

[pine epoch]

Like level 70 you still unlock demi bahamut but it's a upgrade trait to dreadwyrm trance

Instead of it's own skill

[radiant badger]

TL;DR, remove verfire/Verstone/jolt, and make dualcast either last a duration after aero/thunder, or have it just be a refreshing buff that lasts until you stop chaining them.

Imagine persistent dualcasts for 20s flat, OR just dualcasting constantly until your combo is full.

Downside is a long ass initial cast.

Probably too broken though, even with potency drops

But yeah even as like a dualcast upgrade, man that'd feel good to pull off.

Alternatively the chaincast starts with verholy/verflare just to give them some use, and Scorch ends the melee combo instead.

[gaunt star]

@tough fern blm wont be perfect without our Ultima and its 9999 Potency

[quasi zodiac]

Can you get into the boss room at the end of Puppet

during the explore phase?

[heady shadow]

the finalboss room? nope

[quasi zodiac]

Thatas weird

[heady shadow]

you can go up to the door.

[static niche]

yeah the doors are sealed

unfortunately

no cumjar for you

[quasi zodiac]

How many datas are in Puppets?

Just 9

[heady shadow]

7 or 8?

[quasi zodiac]

or

[heady shadow]

9?

[quasi zodiac]

I got 9

https://files.catbox.moe/frebw8.png

[heady shadow]

there should be 4 saved machine lifeform things

i think?

[quasi zodiac]

Really?

[heady shadow]

Im not at home so I cant look sadly

pretty sure

[quasi zodiac]

https://files.catbox.moe/f8njs0.png

Oh found another

[rain badger]

there's 4

in the room with the platform where

if you drop down you can't go back up

in the ship's bridge

[quasi zodiac]

Im missing the first

Saved Machine one

[rain badger]

there's 2 on the top platforms iirc

so if you jump down

you have to do it again

on the left side and on the right side

there's 2 after you jump down

for 4 in total

[gaunt star]

https://i.redd.it/t4mpdzck2hg51.jpg

[quasi zodiac]

cool got it

[heady shadow]

5.3 everyone cried

[lunar hound]

I did

[heady shadow]

same

I watched Draks reaction to seto

shits gonne hit me every time

[gaunt star]

imagine if they had a cry counter

[heady shadow]

I think... you would hae to not give a shit for the story at all to not cry

[gaunt star]

yep lol

i did it twice

and i cried on the seto part again

wtf

I was continuously crying from emet to after seto
Then i watched my friend while he played and cried at elidibus again

[heady shadow]

God...... 6.0 better not suck

[gaunt star]

inb4 graha dies by zenos

[sick moon]

I cried at hades little hand wave

[heady shadow]

or pretends to kill our friends to make us use our true power

[sick moon]

It was so cute

[severe brook]

killing graha at this point would feel cheap

[gaunt star]

pretending wouldnt bring the anger a real kill would

[severe brook]

the others are fair game to bait you into a fight though

[gaunt star]

well they got the excuse too, since Graha is no longer linked to the tower hes not as strong as he was

[heady shadow]

I think he is capable of making a death look real enough

[gaunt star]

well i thought Shtola died

back in stormblood

lmao

[wraith canopy]

y'shtola has had like 3 fake out deaths lmao

[sick moon]

Graha gonna be around for a long time

Yshtola literally cant die

[gaunt star]

Shtola slowly dies anyway due to her condition

[wraith canopy]

yeah i'm thinkin they're either gonna kill alphinaud or thancred

[sick moon]

Thancred has too much plot armor

[gaunt star]

i doubt they will kill her off but Yoshi P has already decided their fates

[sick moon]

Alphinaud... maybe?

[severe brook]

y'shtola secretly actually has nine lives

[gaunt star]

now we just need to break into his office

and find the script of the story

[wraith canopy]

we gotta hold yoshi at gunbladepoint and make him not kill anybody

[sick moon]

Alisae is highly doubtful, she is basically a primary protagonist after us

[severe brook]

The secret script: "Azem created the sound to motivate their friends to get out of Amaurot and do something for the rest of the world"

[gaunt star]

im actually surprised ppl get annoyed good guys didnt die in 5.3

why should ppl die worry

[wraith canopy]

yeah i don't think alisae is gonna die

[sick moon]

Urianger might die, but eh

[gaunt star]

none of the twins will

[sick moon]

I doubt it

[wraith canopy]

urianger wouldn't be emotional enough i think

[sick moon]

Yeah exactly

[gaunt star]

he wouldnt

[severe brook]

they could make it emotional if they have him reunite with moenbryda in the afterlife

[gaunt star]

people just started to like him too

[severe brook]

or something

[wraith canopy]

if someone is gonna die it's gonna be a character we really love

[gaunt star]

5.0 gave a nice focus on Urianger

[viscid monolith]

They could just not kill anyone

[gaunt star]

i wouldnt mind

[wraith canopy]

yeah, was nice that he finally got a good outfit lmao

[sick moon]

They'll kill someone eventually

[severe brook]

"but that's boring" - zenos probably

[gaunt star]

kill merlwyb instead

[viscid monolith]

You shut your mouth

[sick moon]

Maybe they'll kill the twins father later

[gaunt star]

lmfao

[viscid monolith]

[sick moon]

On screen

[viscid monolith]

Kill off uh

[sick moon]

Full sadness

[heady shadow]

They need to dial up the ''everyone gonne die'' high

guess we'll see how it'll go from whoever the scenario writer is

[wraith canopy]

i legit forgot that whatshisname isn't actually the twins' dad

[viscid monolith]

Who

[gaunt star]

uh louisoix?

[sick moon]

Their grandfather

[severe brook]

louisoix?

[wraith canopy]

louisoix that's his name

ye

[gaunt star]

grandfather

so

basically 2nd dad

[wraith canopy]

they talk about him like he was their dad haha

[sick moon]

Loui is their gramps, their real father is out there

[severe brook]

their dad stayed back in old sharlayan

[sick moon]

So his death would be a major development for the twins

[pine epoch]

You know is it just me or doesn't there feel like there was going to be a 2nd song that was supposed to play during Elidibus 2nd Phase?

[severe brook]

and disagreed with how his father and children wanted to get involved

in eorzean affairs

[gaunt star]

at this point any scions death would be more impactful on the twins than their dad lol

[wraith canopy]

wait didn't all the sharlayans die in 2.0?

[severe brook]

i feel like they could've had a different song for the first phase and then start To the Edge after emet gets you out of the rift

[pine epoch]

no

[gaunt star]

no

[wraith canopy]

or am i remembering that wrong

[severe brook]

Old Sharlayan still exists

[pine epoch]

The students of baldesion got wiped out but few remain

[severe brook]

the place they all came from

[wraith canopy]

ohh okay, right right

[heady shadow]

Forchelnaut only cred for his fmily

[severe brook]

the ones we've seen are technically a splinter group

[gaunt star]

krile, mikoto and uh

[wraith canopy]

would be interesting if we got to see old sharlayan someday then

[gaunt star]

u can choose if the annoying lala in eureka lives or dies i think?

[sick moon]

Alisae did mention that she needs development as a character, so SOMETHING is going to happen soon

[wraith canopy]

lmao oh yeah

[gaunt star]

she needs it as in she didnt pick up new arts

tho she can remove the tempering from others now

[sick moon]

Whether it's a death or injury or longterm ko

[wraith canopy]

alisae gonna swap to blue mage

[gaunt star]

which is rather great in itself

[signal solar]

alph and ali were born after the calamity so they never got to know louisoix

[severe brook]

i could see them having the Northern Empty be its own expansion eventually
or they could just make it part of Ilsabard, though Ilsabard is already a big place

[heady shadow]

O_O

[gaunt star]

but the calamity happend 5 years ago

[wraith canopy]

yeah the whole tempering thing is like such a major plot change that got swept under the rug lol

[heady shadow]

no they werent

[sick moon]

Alisae was very close to louisoix though

[gaunt star]

and they are 16-17 now

[signal solar]

i count years as subjective

[sick moon]

She mentions such in the coils

[signal solar]

or

[gaunt star]

the fk

[signal solar]

ok i will aim squirt gun at head

[wraith canopy]

lmfao

[sick moon]

Is this what you need

[viscid monolith]

Killing people off just for shock value is lazy writing

[wraith canopy]

how could you forget when everyone in 2.0 starts every sentence with "five years ago"

[gaunt star]

also killing people off cause ppl hate them is worse xd

[heady shadow]

theres even stories on lodestone for this

[wraith canopy]

yeah if anyone dies it'll be a build-up

[sick moon]

Killing must be done after a build up of emotion, like in hw

That was a good death

[neat edge]

remembers how we found wilred

[gaunt star]

inb4 ppl got spoiled haurcherfant and iceheart died 1 after the other

[sick moon]

I liked ysalae too

[gaunt star]

same

[sick moon]

[wraith canopy]

yeah she was a really good character

[gaunt star]

and at this point her death was good

[quartz charm]

so elidibus was THE first WoL? or just influenced him?

[gaunt star]

tho i would love to see a what if had she survived

[wraith canopy]

i think just influenced him

[sick moon]

Elidibus took on the form of him

[quartz charm]

i mean historically, not in the trial

[sick moon]

But they are not the same person

[gaunt star]

yeah it was just his form

[signal solar]

@quartz charm eliibus only took the form

from prayer

[gaunt star]

and abilities id say

[mild rune]

man Im not 100% invested in the MSQ

but this patch was awesome

[signal solar]

elidibus is a primal anyways

[gaunt star]

its an FF game Azura

u should be

[mild rune]

I started caring halfway through SB

[sick moon]

The real elidibus is still alive

[gaunt star]

ppl just brush it off cause its an MMO

[wraith canopy]

some of my friends skip all the cutscenes in this game and idk how they do it

[mild rune]

HW was great tho

[signal solar]

more coherent story than WoW

[gaunt star]

but imo FFXIV has the best mmo story so far

[mild rune]

dear god ff ruined wow for me

[gaunt star]

WoW ruined itself

[mild rune]

I tried it for the first time 2 months ago

I was like

wtf is going on

[gaunt star]

after WotLK

[sick moon]

Real elidibus is still merged with zodiark in the moon

[mild rune]

@_@

[signal solar]

yes

[mild rune]

I liked legion tho

[sick moon]

Just a reminder

[signal solar]

le moon

[wraith canopy]

didn't elidibus say he separated himself?

[mild rune]

after that I just noped out

[gaunt star]

yes

[signal solar]

only his soul

hes still technically zodiark

[sick moon]

No, the elidibus we killed was a primal version

[wraith canopy]

ohhh

[mild rune]

NGL I kinda want a robe with the crystal effects on it

pixels an all

[wraith canopy]

i mean, we're bound to fight zodiark at some point anyway

[sick moon]

We. Did get more details on how primals work though

[gaunt star]

so basically he became his heart but due to Ancients still suffering and all he split a part of his self?

[sick moon]

They're more or less slaves with a hint of free will to choose how they complete a goal

[gaunt star]

i wonder if fandaniel still aims to ress zodiark

since that burst of happiness after elidibus death was odd

[wraith canopy]

he seemed to, he was encouraging zenos to fight zodiark at the end of 5.2

[sick moon]

Do we even know what fandaniel actually is

[wraith canopy]

i don't think so

[slim egret]

He's an Asian

[sick moon]

He isnt an unsundered

[slim egret]

*ascian

Hahahhaha

[wraith canopy]

i mean besides an ascian

[gaunt star]

a member of the convocation

sundered tho

[slim egret]

No I didn't mean to type Asian

[wraith canopy]

lmao

[gaunt star]

worr

y

but yeah hes an overlord/red mask

[signal solar]

asian

asahi is othardian

[wraith canopy]

i mean techincally that's not inaccurate either

since he's got that bitch's body

[slim egret]

Watch WoL and Fandaniel were friends

[gaunt star]

Look Fandaniel is an Asian

[wraith canopy]

man WoL was friends with everybody it feels like lmao

[slim egret]

I don't think WoL was friends with elidibus

[gaunt star]

WoL was the same as us

[signal solar]

fandaniel represents hashmal

[gaunt star]

he traveled and made friends

[signal solar]

so

[gaunt star]

tbf we were Azem so i guess it makes sense

[signal solar]

get ready for earht based attacks

[gaunt star]

[heady shadow]

hshbrowns?

[wraith canopy]

true

[static niche]

that's assuming we fight him at all

[slim egret]

God the trial for fandaniel is about to be crazy

He seems like kefka clone

[static niche]

kefka?

he's more like joker

[signal solar]

nabriales was cuchulaiin

and he did inflict blight on us

[wraith canopy]

i hope we fight him so we can beat his body's ass again

[gaunt star]

he looks like an Emet Selch on Budget

man if anything everyone agrees Asahi has the most punchable face in the game

[heady shadow]

would be funny

[static niche]

yes

[slim egret]

Asahi has cool facial expressions

[heady shadow]

if he was unsindered

[wraith canopy]

yeah better be a qte where we spam click to punch Asahi

[static niche]

it's highly implied he's sundered screeoholic

[timid solstice]

ora ora ora ora ora ora ora

[signal solar]

so zalera is the esper of death, his scion of light is Emet selch, and FFXIV's emet's real name is Hades, the greek god of death

[gaunt star]

we will do the ora ora thing?

[static niche]

or straight up confirmed anyway

[timid solstice]

spams QTE button to punch Asahi

[static niche]

@signal solar you forgot hades is also a boss in the same game

[slim egret]

Sticky fingeeerrrs

[signal solar]

ohtru

[wraith canopy]

yes

[static niche]

in fact hades used to be the original final boss for that but they changed him to be optional

and made a new final boss

XD

[timid solstice]

I play the game on laptop with a mouse

[signal solar]

so based on that logic

[gaunt star]

https://tenor.com/view/ora-oraora-punching-anime-gif-14045251

[timid solstice]

so I can spam both my mouse button and my trackpad button

for double the mashing

[wraith canopy]

lmao

double the Asahi facepunching

[slim egret]

I've been playing a lot of the extreme trial and I like how it feels like we are going against a group of people

They do group attacks and shit

[gaunt star]

can we meet the Necromancer girl tho

yoshi pls take us to her shard

[slim egret]

I want necromancer class

I feel necromancer would be healer

[wraith canopy]

yeah, been forever since a new healer class

[static niche]

necromancer can be any of 3 roles

ngl

[timid solstice]

Necromancer but is actually a debuffer

[signal solar]

based on logic zalera>emet>hades

[severe brook]

a caster tank would be fun

[wraith canopy]

it would be cool to have a dark healer

that too

[slim egret]

Oooohh necromancer could be DPS

[severe brook]

but we also just got a new tank so

[slim egret]

And they could revive dead adds

[static niche]

no.

[slim egret]

And use them to their advantage

[gaunt star]

ink mage healer /s

[timid solstice]

no no no

revive your ally

[wraith canopy]

pls no more dps

[signal solar]

a reasonable guess could be
mateus>lahabrea>khione

[severe brook]

even Hades' Phase 1 form has some resemblance to Zalera

[timid solstice]

and you control your ally instead

[gaunt star]

tbf since we got a tank and a phys ranged this expansion

next is healer/caster probably

[timid solstice]

That way necromancer turns into super carry

[severe brook]

since he has the zodiark figure on the staff, like how zalera has the shamaness in his hand

[timid solstice]

who intentionally let bad SAM die

and play the SAM yourself

[slim egret]

Maybe undead debuff if revived by necromancer

[wraith canopy]

that would be interesting

[slim egret]

Idk

[gaunt star]

praise hydaelyn

[slim egret]

Necromancer would need a gimmick if they decide

*revive

[timid solstice]

HP resource caster

instead of MP you use your HP

[signal solar]

nabriales could possibly be
cuchulaiin>nabriales>asclepius

[slim egret]

That sounds like it would be fun lol

[signal solar]

or possibly apollo\

[slim egret]

You can have a skills that swaps your hp with no

*np

[severe brook]

i feel like if Necromancer did have minions they'd be just random zombies/undead they call up from the ground

[slim egret]

Mp

[timid solstice]

You can't revive but you can make someone invuln for short time

[severe brook]

not literally reviving adds

[wraith canopy]

sounds like hell to play in the nier raids where you die if you mess up one mech lmao

[slim egret]

Ooo

[gaunt star]

man the trial and the nier raid are quite a step up

[slim egret]

Kinda like summoner?

[wraith canopy]

yeah that shit was intense

[severe brook]

the ancients probably don't all have greek deity names

[slim egret]

You call up zombies

[timid solstice]

your revive has no casting time but every time you revive you add vuln stack to your target

[gaunt star]

i wasnt expecting such wipe fests

[static niche]

especially the trial where one fail = EVERYONE FUCKING WIPE

[severe brook]

venat's not a greek god and that name isn't a title

[signal solar]

the convo probably do

[severe brook]

why would they?
they're not all siblings

[slim egret]

I prefer ivalice raids to nier

[severe brook]

the only linked names they have is in their titles

[timid solstice]

This new raid made my wrist hurt

[severe brook]

but they'd all be their own people otherwise

[slim egret]

The last room in nier raid

[wraith canopy]

i like the nier raids more but i'm biased cuz i love nier

[slim egret]

Where it's like a bullet hell

Is so fun

[timid solstice]

oh and I don't think this raid is BLM friendly

[slim egret]

I'm BLM and I was fine lol

[static niche]

it's not friendly to everyone

[slim egret]

All raids aren't BLM friendly

[wraith canopy]

yeah not at all, my friend mains BLM and he was not having a fun time lol

[slim egret]

Blms have to figure out positioning

[wraith canopy]

especially in the hallway

[slim egret]

Hall way wasn't bad as blm

[timid solstice]

tell him to just tank orbs

[slim egret]

You have enough time to alidecast

[timid solstice]

have healers adjust

[slim egret]

Slide cast

Orbs are slow

[wraith canopy]

yeah but they have that tiny bit of lag that makes dodging them weird

[timid solstice]

There were few death I had where I wouldn't have had if I was a dnc

Basically times I had to run very very far

Like that one third boss mech

[slim egret]

I have almost my bis (other than weapon) as blm so I can cheese a lot of the current mechanics

[timid solstice]

where he stomps around like a madman

[slim egret]

Manaward ftw

[wraith canopy]

yeah god that boss

[timid solstice]

Does anyone know if teamcraft is updated?

My FC is offering to craft new gather/craft gear as long as I provide materials

apparently he can craft HQ ones with just NQ mats

and teamcraft is the best for getting materials for crafting list

[grand parcel]

okay i have an interesting question

has anyone translated the angelic script you see in the first bosses attack

in the new alliance raid

okay i justd id it myself cuz it turns out it's alot more basic

it's uhh...GATC repeated over and over again.

[severe brook]

you know i think this might be one of the few viewpoints that looks down during the Rift phase in the WoL fight

what a view

oh cool it's a genetic code

[grand parcel]

idk, knowing yoko it probably is.

thats' literally all the angelic script says

GATC

[graceful valve]

this new ex is spicy

man

I'm loving it

[heady shadow]

ye.

it's used in Drakengard one and three

D3 being the branch D boss?

[quartz charm]

yeah

final bosses of drakengard 1 and 3 sing at you

[pastel coyote]

sing ? the new job will sing ? It's idol ?

[quartz charm]

you already have dragoon

[placid sail]

hah you can unlock a bartending minigame after you do a specific dwarf quest

reminds me of va11halla

[quartz charm]

i cant believe how much content they lock behind crafting and gathering

[heady shadow]

I still cant get over how mny FF one references they put into the tril

[frozen spade]

so did fisher get anything good to desyns this patch or another fuck you?

[north fulcrum]

fuck you

[heady shadow]

afaik it's fuck you

[north fulcrum]

FFXIV says "bitch we gave you boats you're fine for an expac"

[frozen spade]

i love how fisher every xpac only use is for that one aethersand then its fuck you for every other fish released

[pastel coyote]

we have boat ?

[frozen spade]

ocean fishing

[north fulcrum]

Ocean fishing, which tbf is fun but sooooo limited

[frozen spade]

ocean fishing is nice

a good break away from normal fishing

[north fulcrum]

It's fun/comfy but it has such a small purpose that it emptied out real fast

If you want achievs after the initial rush you gotta go with a premade for sure

[rich void]

God it infuriates me that the new ex no one can decide on a fucking consistent strat

Every party I join does something different

And it's a pain in the ass

I don't like having to learn a new strat every time I join a farm party

[ashen coral]

@rich void sounds like half the EX trials so far in ShB lol

[radiant badger]

Easy way to make ocean fishing better:

Just make it so you can target specific fish before the run.

"Screw everything else, I just need THESE fish."

[rich void]

I mean

Hades roughly had a consistent strat

But I can say with brutal honesty

In the 8 clears I've done

[unique verge]

idk

[rich void]

I've had to learn like...

5 freaking strats

Because no one can decide one one

[unique verge]

I've only seen two strat changes

How you handle the meteor circles in add phase

and whether or not you knockback immune the NIN

[rich void]

There was meteors, who takes the tethers. A bunch of other things

Im just clearing it two more times for my GNB wep and then never again

Not until this gets consistent

I already have my DRK

[placid sail]

a servant of the light posing as the Warrior of Darkness fights a servant of the darkness posing as the Warrior of Light

you have to appreciate the symmetry in Shadowbringers

[unique verge]

or, more specifically

[sick vine]

5 Strats for the new trial? Dahell

[unique verge]

A sundered fragment of Azem fights a guy who decided to imitate what Azem looked like

Honestly its not nearly as variable as you think

its not "5 entirely different ways of doing a fight"

There's bits and pieces which can be done slightly differently, but mostly thats position changes

[buoyant hatch]

We don't know if the first WoL on the First was actually holding Azem's soul

[placid sail]

it's more about embodying the very concept of the Warrior of Light

[unique verge]

It's pretty significantly implied to the point that it would be almost contrived for it be anything but that.

[buoyant hatch]

could've also been elidibus from the start

[unique verge]

Nope

[placid sail]

I wonder if Tenzen was also Azem

[unique verge]

Cant be Elidibus

[buoyant hatch]

actually wait, it can't indeed

[unique verge]

Because we have an Echo vision from Elidibus' eyesight POV

[buoyant hatch]

It'd be pretty likely it was Azem then yeh, but no confirmation

[unique verge]

looking at (what i am assuming is Azem)

[buoyant hatch]

Elidibus forgot Azem entirely tho, he didn't realize

[frozen spade]

SHEATHE YOUR SWORD TENZEN

[placid sail]

I BEG OF YOU

[unique verge]

Well, that's what happens when you're a shitty ass imitation built out of aether and broken memories pulled out of a primal.

[radiant badger]

'nuff said

[frozen spade]

https://i.redd.it/7nsdqufizrg51.png

[radiant badger]

[buoyant hatch]

the bottom part of that circle is probably the glyph for Azim

(might need to be flipped upside down)

[radiant badger]

Given the caster of that magic is at the center of those circles, usually.

It's all but confirmed we're Azem's shard.

[gaunt star]

unless its the exarch doing it

[unique verge]

Well, there's zero debate as to if we're Azem

[buoyant hatch]

The quest log also states you were doing it

[unique verge]

That's universally agreed on

[buoyant hatch]

the summoning I mean

[radiant badger]

I mean even then, he tends to summon people around him when he's got the formula down lol. The exarch, I mean

[gaunt star]

and not on a forest? woow

im just waiting for that one guy to start saying we arent Azem

[radiant badger]

I mean one of the first tidbits of shadowbringers was him explicitly stating yeah it took a little bit to get it down. properly.

[unique verge]

that one guy

[gaunt star]

in the 5.0 finale he did summon the circle around us

yes

he might be on the forums probably

since the highest lvl of degeneracy is there

then theres reddit

or twitter.. hmm

[unique verge]

i thought the highest level of degeneracy was on Crystal

[rich void]

I do appreciate sassy grandpa saving the day one last time

[radiant badger]

I'm not THAT old.

[placid sail]

the convocation member holding the title of Azem was literally doing WoL stuff back in ancient times

[rich void]

We were just kind of doing our own thing

Back then

[placid sail]

travelling around the world, helping people out

[subtle pasture]

Hythlodaeus basically said all the ways you could say without directly going "My friend, the 14th"

[rich void]

Also with Fandaniel I think that's accounting all of the 13 scion of light names from 12? Was it 13?

[placid sail]

I was really hoping 5.3 would end with us establishing a permanent link between the Source and the First

[rich void]

I think its 12 or 13 names

I have not played 12 in a hot minute

[radiant badger]

His new old friend*

So he kind of did anyways

[gaunt star]

in the french translation he literally says ure azem

when he hands u over that crystal

[unique verge]

Wait really?

[gaunt star]

more directly than he does in the english version

[subtle pasture]

He all but says it explicitly but it's clearly the case

[unique verge]

do they just think the French wouldnt get it....

[subtle pasture]

if that makes sense

[gaunt star]

something along the 'its finally back on the hands it belongs'

or something like that

[subtle pasture]

Like "Have I ever seen my friend and the 14th in the same room."

[stuck yarrow]

does the wol helmet seriously hide your hair like that?

[subtle pasture]

"Boy, friend how'd you get such good photos of the 14th"

insert any other poorly veiled "secret identity" meme

[rich void]

Trust no one

Not even yourself

[unique verge]

Plus there's the whole matter of Azem's he/she status changing based on the player character.

[subtle pasture]

But I love the nuance of Hythlo dancing around the confirmation, bc, basically,

even despite being sundered, Azem isn't Azem

since they defected

[rich void]

I was going to ask if that entire thing changed pronouns if you gender flipped

[unique verge]

Yes, it does

well

i assume it does anyway

[subtle pasture]

Yeah, Azem's pronouns match the WoL's

[unique verge]

Regardless

[rich void]

So remind me

It's been a bit

[subtle pasture]

But yeah, I'm mostly just speaking of how Hythlo doesn't say it outright, because he cannot.

[rich void]

Why can the Hythlo construct be sentient more than the others.

[subtle pasture]

If bc of our defection, Hades' denial, etc, etc

[rich void]

Is it because Hades had a stray thought. Was that it?

I forget the reason

[unique verge]

Well

The Hythlo construct also is a bit of an enigma

[subtle pasture]

Well his last line is he's unsure if he's acting under his own volition or Hades' intended purpose for him

[unique verge]

Keeping in mind other things that are stated post-SoS trial

[subtle pasture]

So, in short,

https://tenor.com/view/well-yes-but-actually-no-well-yes-no-yes-yes-no-gif-13736934

[unique verge]

It's implied that Hythlo is part of the "failsafe" created by Emet

[rich void]

I forget if it was said the reason he can because Hades knew that the real Hylotho would have seen trhough it.

So the construct could as well

[subtle pasture]

Yeah Hythlo said that when we first spoke to him,

[teal geyser]

Is it because Hades had a stray thought. Was that it?
@rich void he said that it's possible Hades had a stray thought that Hythlodaeus would work out what's happening" and that was enough

[subtle pasture]

but his final line just doubles down on "Am I my own thing or is Hades this complex? "

[teal geyser]

Ugh my connection is dying a bit

[subtle pasture]

We'll never know, exactly

[teal geyser]

He can be aware of the situation and still be on rails

He can be...both?

[subtle pasture]

He can be, yeah,

[unique verge]

It seems like the most likely option, actually

[teal geyser]

I'd argue a primal is its own thing despite being pre programmed

For example

[subtle pasture]

Like I also doubt Hades would be able to make his friend such a shackled automation

[unique verge]

Well, wait, what's this got to do with primals?

[subtle pasture]

So out of his own sentimentality, Hythlo has that bit of cognition

[teal geyser]

Well, wait, what's this got to do with primals?
I'm just using it as an example is all

It has no basis in this conversation in any other way

[unique verge]

Ah, okay. i thought you were trying to draw a stronger link between creation/concept magic and primals.

[teal geyser]

No no no

I was hoping it wouldn't be seen like that

[pastel coyote]

i totally see it like that

[subtle pasture]

Today on "Creation is fucking weird,"

"Is it a primal? Well yes but no."

[teal geyser]

Noooo

[unique verge]

I mean, they basically have the same fundamental basis

[teal geyser]

Such deviation

This was NOT my intention

[gaunt star]

good grief

[subtle pasture]

Welcome to Creation, if your intentions aren't explicit or concrete,

...you may accidentally invent lalafell

and no one wants that.

[unique verge]

Goddamnit Ancients

you had ONE job

dont invent a creepy race

[gaunt star]

Lalas are a mistake.

[rich void]

Every race is special. Except Lalas

[gaunt star]

correct

[rich void]

They're a mistake upon the universe

[neat edge]

purpose of lalas

[subtle pasture]

[unique verge]

Oh geez

why'd you have to do that

I was unaware that the new collectables had their own flavor text

now i have to read all of it

[neat edge]

probably the real reason we had 5.3 late

[unique verge]

Goddamnit Koji

We could have had 5.3 two months ago but you were too slow writing your puns

[rich void]

What is this even a reference to

[neat edge]

xD

[subtle pasture]

God

[gaunt star]

nandato

[radiant badger]

When people are too young to get the reference

[gaunt star]

ok boomer uwu

[unique verge]

idk, i tracked down the reference just now

and uh

if you're too young to get that reference, you probably shouldnt be playing FF14

since its....from 2008

[radiant badger]

APPLE BOTTOM JEEAAANS AND THEM BOOTS WITH THE FURR

THE WHOLE CLUB BE LOOKIN AT HERRRR

[neat edge]

i feel attacked by this one

[radiant badger]

SHE HIT THE FLOOR

Fuck I forgot my spot in my reading

[rich void]

I don't really listen to music much. Let alone rap music.

[radiant badger]

Here's another song reference.

A bit more obvious.

[rich void]

Also 2008 is still 12 years ago

You expect me to remember a song from a decade ago?

[radiant badger]

Errone else here seems to, so.. yeah, I'd argue it's pretty normal

[rich void]

[unique verge]

Fuckin' neckbeards

[neat edge]

fedora meme

[radiant badger]

One does not diss a good hat

[rich void]

Fedora memes in 2020

What a time to be alive

[neat edge]

ouch

[unique verge]

So an Anti-WoL neck

[radiant badger]

With a neck as stronk as WoLs I don't think he cares anymore

The blood is just extra incentive to nod even harder

THE WOUNDS ONLY MAKE ME STRONGER

[gaunt star]

WoL can tank a spear on their neck now

[radiant badger]

I mean we have canonically taken Dalamud to the face now.

Twice.

Unless you somehow manage to dunk Ruby Weapon before two dalamuds drop

[gaunt star]

WoL OP until Zenos kicks our ass

[frozen spade]

WoL OP till Zenos actually cares to use 4 blades

[gaunt star]

Zenos wins until WoL beats him up

we will do the ora ora thing

[neat edge]

these 2 go together https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/188117596099444737/743607344746856499/unknown.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/188117596099444737/743607488347111554/unknown.png

[gaunt star]

damn it koji

[unique verge]

I'm surprised it took him this long to make this reference with an RDM weapon.

[forest magnet]

Inconcievable!

[teal geyser]

Finally

Some of the hilts really bother me

[swift kraken]

@gaunt star

[heady shadow]

I'm still.... processing... the msq

especially... them throwing the original WoL at us.

[unique verge]

You mean them throwing us at us?

lol

[heady shadow]

is the original world actually just FF1's world?

[unique verge]

Nah

[teal geyser]

No

[gaunt star]

[heady shadow]

would be funny

[unique verge]

The appearance match is just a reference

[gaunt star]

[heady shadow]

so are the mechanics

[teal geyser]

Who was really surprised?

[shy flax]

I would have been surprised by the chosen appearance had they not revealed it to us in the first quest of the patch

[teal geyser]

I was expecting the WoL to be first era WoL or something. Aside from the "oh it's the ancient instead" I wasn't shocked

[swift kraken]

[shy flax]

What if the origin of The First is FF1, and the other 12 shards represent FF2-13?

[swift kraken]

i need to make one

with ct graha

[shy flax]

(not real theory just bsing)

[teal geyser]

I mean that just doesn't make sense at all

[neat edge]

the void is probably the failed ff13 reference

[shy flax]

Oh i know don't worry

[radiant badger]

I thought the void was ff3.

[shy flax]

also explains why the Thirteenth is the void

[radiant badger]

Well

no, void is 5

World of Darkness was 3

[teal geyser]

But world of darkness is the void

Checkmate

[radiant badger]

I don't make the rules lol

[shy flax]

Darkness within darkness awaits you, <playername>

[radiant badger]

It's hard to not know exdeath as VOID

[heady shadow]

either way

surprises me that the source doesnt have a wol 'origin'

[unique verge]

waht do you mean?

[heady shadow]

the first seems to have way more info about the Title.

[teal geyser]

Well calamities will fuck with knowledge for starters

[viscid monolith]

The laws of the universe mean nothing to me, MUAHAHAHAHA

[subtle pasture]

"is the trial gonna be Elidibus or a Warrior of Light of some sort"

"Yes."

[teal geyser]

I feel like I was the only one who was wrong about the trial

[subtle pasture]

I think it's more that the majorities were half-right

[radiant badger]

I mean, I didn't predict jack shit

[subtle pasture]

bc the combo blew most away

[viscid monolith]

My prediction was wrong

[shy flax]

my joke prediction was wrong

[subtle pasture]

I was expecting an amalgamation out of the Tower

[teal geyser]

I honestly thought it was just going to be a shifting of light causing an Eden 2.0 that we fight

[viscid monolith]

The bosses in Hero's Gauntlet were not primals

[shy flax]

so was my actual prediction but

[subtle pasture]

Yeah I really expected corrupted WoL's

but instead it's

a bunch of half-wol's??

the bare semblance of their essences manifested as dangerous specters

[neat edge]

we all thought the named new warriors of light were gonna die

[shy flax]

They were primals after a fashion. Born of aether and a prayer.

[subtle pasture]

[viscid monolith]

I thought they were gonna be corrupted into Primals by Elidbus. Didn't they'd die.

[subtle pasture]

Though, "Eli uses the tower to summon in wols" isn't far from the truth

just only like a half of it

[shy flax]

which, last I checked, was the requirement for primalness

[heady shadow]

I wonder if they would think of this as dream.....

probbaly wont ever know

unless we strts shrd hopping

[subtle pasture]

I also thought the stab was Eli usurping the Tower from him

[pastel coyote]

i predicted that we will be the final boss, but i didn't mean in that way

[subtle pasture]

instead it was the Spirit Vessel the Exarch put his memories in

[unique verge]

Hah

I just had an amusing thought

[subtle pasture]

GOD the FUCKING STAB

amounted to nothing

fuck trailers

I love it

[unique verge]

DRK players upon seeing that the final boss is themselves "Fuck not THIS shit again"

[viscid monolith]

Well duh

[subtle pasture]

That and the "YoRHa attacks Komra"

[viscid monolith]

Trailers always show a red herring

[subtle pasture]

bc the black suits was a total fake-out

they TRICKED us

[radiant badger]

Less 'not this shit again' and more 'I've been preparing my whole career for this.'

[subtle pasture]

and it was better and worse than the double dalamuds

[pastel coyote]

well it's not like they didn't give us hint

"lie and truth"

[subtle pasture]

Like my first jaw drop of the expac was uhhh,

well, Archon Loaf at first, loved that sequence,

but Eli's memories of his inauguration

[unique verge]

furiously refreshes SoS EX PF
no complete parties that i can join
UGH