@shy flax i preferred the sarcastic options about her being like a mom. At one point you have the option of choosing "so long as you don't give me any chores to do" and theres a super long pause from everyone
#retired-patch-6-3-discussion
static niche
set ablaze?
stiff lynx
||we're going to kill hydaelin and awaken whatever caused the downfall of amaurot. Since you need both zodiark and hydaelin's balance to contain it, even if it was unintentional. So jenova/lavos or something similar
and we're going to kill hydaelin because zenos will end up consuming her or killing zodiark and it will tip the scales of balance.
so near end of 6.0 will start foreshadowing whatever monster caused the ascians to do what they did. (summon zodiark)
atleast thats how i see it going as a game dev/story writer||
static niche
||i means i've been tinfoiling the jenova theory but people says no.||
stiff lynx
its typical final fantasy
royal token
personally ive been crying for a space flea
shy flax
@gaunt star There’s a reason you always choose the sarcastic response when Y’shtola is involved
Or Thancred, for that matter.
stiff lynx
i wouldnt also be surprised if we some shard similar to ff5
maybe like a doomed version of it
err 4'
since...
||the wol fight, especially in extreme had characters that looked similar to the main characters in 4 and 5.||
stiff lynx
this game is already a walking reference to all other final fantasy anyways, why not just say they were seperate shards in different timelines, or alternate timelines? like the whole ivalice thing
stiff lynx
kain doesnt have to exist like how fran exists but vaan doesnt
it'd be a doomed timeline hypothetically so he could be dead and we would have drk cecil
gaunt star
Even balthier doesn’t 😭
shy flax
But this patch combined lore from FF3, FF1, to some extent Dissidia, FF7, this game is a mishmash of references
stiff lynx
which is why..
||we're azem who is the original wol, which primal elidibus is based off of. He's basically posing us||
royal token
iirc kain highwind exists but has a historical character. its on his minion iirc
unique verge
I feel like i need to go collect the CT armor set on my tank once i get the SoS EX weapon, and just glam that for the next forever
royal token
and yea the whm/blm were clear shout out ot palom and polom
stiff lynx
i spent like 20 attempts doing wol extreme to clear with pugs(i did) so i got a good look at the drk tanking his nasty tankbusters
royal token
it had the cecil glam helm on
royal token
or the af helm
unique verge
ah, i didnt notice, i always tank the WAR
royal token
she looked blonde
stiff lynx
too busy rotating the boss to soak a baha
unique verge
In fairness they're all yellow
royal token
true
timid solstice
Kupo
royal token
still had a bun tho
timid solstice
Always choose the kupo option kupo
royal token
the brd was supposed to be a mix of rosa and someone else i think
correct, always choose the kupo
kupo!
tough fern
Elidibus being a primal, didn't see that coming admittedly but in hindsight when you examine the clues.....it becomes obvious
forest magnet
Elidibus: I used the WoL to destroy the WoL.
neat edge
while possessing a WoL
gaunt star
More impressed that elidibus could apparently swap worship for zodiark, if people were fawning over the wol, all the prayers went to zodiark which is weird
Or was it just elidibus himself?
tough fern
I figured he would summon a twisted version of Hyde, didn't think he would turn himself into an all powerful primal
tough fern
Graha's words at the end are ominous though
gaunt star
The elidibus fight reminded me of the omega fight... because of the strong amano influence
viscid monolith
We already know
gaunt star
Yep. @tough fern 😐
viscid monolith
Zodiark is going to be freed
radiant badger
forest magnet
fandaniel and zenos, zodiark doing some weird shit
viscid monolith
It doesn't sound like he has any particular goals
forest magnet
other than "CHAOS"
tough fern
Because Zenos mentions fighting us while the world burns
forest magnet
which is pretty lame for a finale
viscid monolith
He just wants to "live life to the fullest"
radiant badger
Well we can't fight Chaos, we already did in the Omega raid.
lunar hound
are we sure that Elidibus possessed the original WoL? I kind of got the impression that he WAS the original WoL, and that on every world he was aways the first one to don the title in order to inspire future generations to place their hope in heroes
viscid monolith
He didn't possess he created a vessel in his image
tough fern
This
radiant badger
swift kraken
im guessing hes just acting unhinged to pretend he doesnt
viscid monolith
You could even say he summoned a Primal in the image of the first WoL
forest magnet
Shadowbringers: Save two worlds from darkness, and learn the truth about pretty much all the secrets of FFXIV.
6.0: Lol Zenos is acting up again take care of him.
lunar hound
and I don't think Zenos necessarily wants or cares if the world burns or not, he's just willing to do so if that's what it takes to draw us into another anime showdown
swift kraken
zenos getting outsmarted would be very cathartic im not going to lie
forest magnet
zenos finally actually legit straight up dying would be cathartic
i've had enough of him
viscid monolith
Pure Evil villains like Zenos always have a final act downfall.
forest magnet
what are some examples in FF
viscid monolith
In Zenos' case it wouldn't be being outsmarted. It would be being utterly overpowered.
swift kraken
both perhaps
tough fern
Hope they flesh Zenos out more
swift kraken
hes already fleshed out as a character really
viscid monolith
It would also be a decent callback to him getting his ass kicked as a teenager by his teacher.
tough fern
Still a bit stale and one dimensional
lunar hound
I actually love Zenos as an antagonist. He really only wants one thing, and he's willing to do whatever it takes to get it
and nobody else seems to understand that
forest magnet
the only development he's gotten in the past 3 years is "I have bad nightmares uwu"
swift kraken
yeah but if zenos gets character development im going to shoot myself
gun to head straight through
viscid monolith
Kefka is stale and one dimensional but people can't help but jerk him off. What's with this double standard?
swift kraken
one dimensional =/= bad
forest magnet
At least Kefka is interesting to watch
swift kraken
there are plenty of villains with no growth
forest magnet
Zenos is like watching paint dry
swift kraken
its just how you handle it
viscid monolith
Sure if you like clowns
tough fern
We have yet to see any meaningful flashbacks of Zenos with the echo so you know it's coming
forest magnet
Zenos is literally in a perpetual state of bordem
Kefka actually tries to have some fun
gaunt star
in a game full of villains with complex reasonings for the way they are, and big backstories
im glad we have a zenos
dudes just unhinged
swift kraken
zenos can be construed as an allegory for depression by the way
gaunt star
i like that
forest magnet
I swear you Zenos defenders wouldn't be here if he wasn't outwardly horny for the WoL.
viscid monolith
Because that's all he is. He's a clown. I could just watch IT or Batman film with Joker and see a better version of Kefka.
gaunt star
I think they want fandaniel to be a kefka sort
swift kraken
i dont like zenos either but calling a villain bad cause hes one-dimensional isnt very true
tough fern
Him constantly dreaming about the Sundering has me wondering if maybe......he's Zodiark. Bit of a crackpot theory but throwing it out there anyway
golden nebula
His personality could still change like emets
viscid monolith
I'm not into that horny shit. I'm sick of people that know nothing about writing constantly conplaining about one dimensional villains being bad.
swift kraken
i just dont care about zenos
golden nebula
But if be down for that
swift kraken
and what he does
golden nebula
Id
gaunt star
I swear you Zenos defenders wouldn't be here if he wasn't outwardly horny for the WoL.
Zenos character is built on his rivalry with us so of course
viscid monolith
I'm sick of every villain in XIV being morally grey. It's stale.
gaunt star
"lets remove his character and see how you like him then!!"
viscid monolith
It becomes noise listening to every villain's tragic backstory
Over and over again
gaunt star
@forest magnet zenos is admirable in his simplicity and sincerity, which is a firm departure of what we just went through with the ascians
smh if graha wasn't our best bro no one would like him
swift kraken
its not morally grey as much as they have reasons for their actions but their actions are fucking terrible
their actions arent morally grey in the slightest
theres nothing grey about genocide
viscid monolith
Actions don't make you morally grey
tough fern
But the two best Villians in Emet and Elidibus were morally grey
forest magnet
Resorting to making characters horny for the WoL is not good writing.
tough fern
forest magnet
just sayin'
viscid monolith
Your reasoning is what makes you morally grey
swift kraken
even then its not really morally grey if you want to murder 1000000 people for it
you are morally wrong
forest magnet
I love One Punch Man and Saitama is literally the most one dimensional protag out there. He just punches and is a funny idiot.
tough fern
Like Thordan had good intentions but he went about it the wrong way
viscid monolith
The only big bad villains that aren't morally grey off the top of my head is Yotsuyu and Zenos
forest magnet
Nidhogg was seeking revenge for his sister that's pretty one dimensional
gaunt star
whats funny is that Saitama and Zenos have the same thing going on
Think about if you were playing an ff game from the pov of the ascians, with the world ending as the game began
viscid monolith
@swift kraken Unfortunately it's more complicated than that
forest magnet
At least Saitama is funny.
gaunt star
both are overwhelmingly powerful and are seeking a stronger opponent
both are bored as fuck
tough fern
Zenos is literally just "I want a rematch with the WoL because i'm Sadu but male"
forest magnet
Yeah Saitama isn't going to nuke the world to do that, that's Boros.
gaunt star
@swift kraken the residents of the shards are not people to the ascians
swift kraken
zenos wants to fight you because you can cure his perpetual boredom cause youre strong
forest magnet
Intersting thing is his character does get fleshed out a little bit more when he's debating whether or not to kill Garou
viscid monolith
Nidhogg's revenge would be justified if he just killed the king and his knights
neat edge
he just wants to die, don't you see. Just like emet 
swift kraken
@gaunt star yeah but that doesnt change the fact theyre still people
lunar hound
remember that Ratatoskr's essence has been distilled into every Ishgardian, so to niddy they're all complicit in her death
tough fern
Nidhoggs revenge was him slowly torturing the Ishgardians over a century
gaunt star
@swift kraken but they arent
swift kraken
they define people differently but that doesnt mean their definition should be considered
viscid monolith
It's been 1000 years
forest magnet
They are complicit in their death by painting the only person to achieve peace between dragon and man as a heretic
lunar hound
time doesn't mean anything to dragons, at least our concept of time doesn't
viscid monolith
They aren't complicit. They've been lied to all their lives.
gaunt star
@swift kraken from their pov, their pov is the only one that should as unsundered souls
forest magnet
their power structure is a direct result of killing ratsokr
tough fern
*Torture stretched over 1K years
forest magnet
the existence of Ishgard, even
lunar hound
I think the point is that FFXIV villains tend not to do evil things because they are evil, they're doing them because they believe that their actions are good and justified
viscid monolith
That is morally grey
gaunt star
@lunar hound except zenos
forest magnet
zenos does it because he's bored
I actually take that back Saitama has more character than Zenos at this point lol
lunar hound
I don't think Zenos even understands good and evil
swift kraken
wouldnt it be morally grey if you actually had a point somewhere
viscid monolith
Their motivations are literally the same
tough fern
Elidibus didn't even remember why he was doing what he did as pointed out
swift kraken
theres no moral dilemma in some villains viewpoints
gaunt star
Zenos does things because it's all he's ever known, he's been raised as a monster and is okay with his lot in life. He's a force of nature, just wants to get stronger and fight bigger and better things, like the player.
viscid monolith
Most of the villains have a "point" somewhere along their reasoning
gaunt star
He doesn't need to have some big reasoning for being how he is, no big sad moral reasons
Dude is a jackass
swift kraken
but i get why theyd say it
glacial turret
I just wanna say i love u all
swift kraken
morally grey means theyre also morally justified and some villain just... arent unless youre in their own head
forest magnet
Isn't Kefka literally the only villain in all of FF (besides Zenos) who just does what he does for no reason apart from "I just wanna"?
swift kraken
emet isnt morally justified, even his own people disagreed with him
also hes tempered so yeah
forest magnet
Because I find it funny when you bring up how simple villains are needed when only 1 other villain in the entire game series matches that description.
viscid monolith
No Xuan
None of the villains up until 9 have some complex motivation
They're all saturday morning cartoons
royal token
ff3's didnt wanna die
swift kraken
dont some villains just show up cause they just wanna
royal token
but most were bent on world conquest
swift kraken
ff9 necron
neat edge
Funny how Gaius is now the guy who assassinated the emperor.
forest magnet
Sephiroth has an identity crisis and concludes his destiny is to become a god.
neat edge
fking media
gaunt star
Simple archetypal villains are vanishingly rare nowadays, because too manu people are comfy with villains that have understandable reasons. Which is why zenos psychopathy is refreshingly simple.
viscid monolith
Chaos/Garland, Emperor, Cloud of Darkness, Whatever the fuck happened in 4, Exdeath, Kefka, Sephiroth, Ultimacia. All Saturday morning cartoon villains. FF is built on it.
forest magnet
I'm not familiar with the other FFs but I'm sure their villains have some good motivation apart from "I just wanna do it"
gaunt star
I never said we need simple villains. Just that it's nice that after getting a bunch of villains who will proudly exposit about their morality and what it means to do what they do, we just have an unhinged force of nature to deal with. Zenos being "simple" doesn't make him bad, i don't get what the issue is with him just being a psychopath
Some people are just absolute bastards
forest magnet
Cloud of Darkness isn't even really the real villain in FF3 tho
gaunt star
and Zenos has every reason to be one
forest magnet
it just shows up at the end lol
viscid monolith
If you don't even know the FFs why would even make that claim?
neat edge
Sweat boiii seems more cringy than zenos+fandanny imho
pastel coyote
ff9 Kuja just do what it cost to be free, to live as he want. Zidane point out that if their situation have been swaped he would have done the same.
swift kraken
again personally i dont take issue with his character and more that i dont really care about him
viscid monolith
At least Kuja is afraid of Death or something
viscid monolith
@gaunt star I am saying we need simple villains
swift kraken
in fact im surprised i dont get my ass beat on the daily with my scholar fairy ass book
forest magnet
why
pastel coyote
And ironically it's the defiance (?) of Kuja that push the clone to act in some way
swift kraken
id argue the zodiark we are going to fight eventually is probably a simple villain really
forest magnet
actually nevermind, yuou said we need simple villains because you're sick of complex ones, right?
swift kraken
at least - in essence
forest magnet
^
swift kraken
when you say simple do you mean just doing it cuz they bad or simple motives
cause all things considered elidibus is also that. he just wants his family back and also has like no personality by design
viscid monolith
Because every villain coming to you with a sob story for why they have to sacrifice a country gets old after the 3rd time. It just becomes noise. "Oh wow I wonder what your sob story is. Did your family get killed? Did your best friend betray you?"
swift kraken
ok so you want villains without backstories
forest magnet
almost as if people have motivaitons for what they're doing...
swift kraken
thats not a simple villain
gaunt star
bruh I just finished it
I can't man
my heart
@viscid monolith I have greatly enjoyed the Rage of nidhogg, completely Justified from a story perspective, the tragedy of the ascians, a stark contrast to the rather simple and straightforward villainy of a psychopath who wants nothing more than to have fun
swift kraken
zenos is not a simple character because he doesnt do it just cause
he has a sob story himself
viscid monolith
And more importantly I'm sick of watching people side with the villains. Even the devs are shocked at how people just take what the villains' words at face value and just go "oh wow they're right I wanna be evil".
gaunt star
@swift kraken Zenos will be the first one to tell you not to give a crap about his sob story, that it's irrelevant
swift kraken
so?
lunar hound
it's not even that he wants to have fun. I don't think Zenos can feel anything if he's not in the heat of battle
swift kraken
still has a backstory and motivations
forest magnet
that's one
viscid monolith
Zenos himself doesn't tell you his sob story, nor is he particularly upset about it.
forest magnet
who else?
viscid monolith
Gaius
swift kraken
just cause he doesnt tell you his reasons for being bad doesnt mean he doesnt have them
forest magnet
Well we only found out about Gaius' backstory recently
swift kraken
forest magnet
before then he was just "haha pirate man go yarrrrghghhhhh"
viscid monolith
Gaius' moral greyness doesn't come from his backstory
forest magnet
well he wanted to elmiinate the primal threat by conquering all of eorzea
simple enough
gaunt star
@viscid monolith Zenos just wants angry sex
viscid monolith
It's purely in his motivations. He truly thinks Eorzea needs to be rescued from itself.
tranquil flower
^
swift kraken
i think you dont mean simple characters
viscid monolith
He thinks conquering them is doing them a favor.
swift kraken
cause thats like
a lighrwarden
destroys u just cuz theyre a lighrwarden and they are angery
viscid monolith
I know what I mean Khad
tough fern
Hildibrand was found in The Heroes Gauntlet lol
viscid monolith
He's the Gentleman of Light
swift kraken
a while ago y
tough fern
Lakeland portion
swift kraken
also just wanna say the gauntlet is great
tough fern
That is an amazing easter egg
static niche
problem is
forest magnet
Gaius is just a colonist
static niche
still no HILDIBRAND QUEST
tough fern
Music for the dungeon was superb
swift kraken
reminded me of the time you built the talos
neat edge
shame about rak'tika but that's not on the way
static niche
WHERE IS OUR INSPECTING QUESTS
swift kraken
omg the nights blessed helping you
viscid monolith
He's not just a colonist
swift kraken
that wouldve been so nice
tough fern
Playing through it with trusts added to it even more
forest magnet
I mean he feels like he should rescue the savages from themselves
tough fern
Because we had our friends beside us
forest magnet
sounds a lot like colonialism to me
viscid monolith
Imperialism
swift kraken
i feel like that dungeon was designed for trusts
viscid monolith
There's a difference
swift kraken
smaller pulls
lunar hound
2.0 Gaius truly believed that the Garlean Empire was better for the natives of Eorzea than self-rule.
viscid monolith
Colonialism happens for a range of reasons. Like escaping some kind of oppression. Imperialists set out with the goal of increasing its power through military force on foreign entities.
Gaius is an Imperialist
neat edge
Emet just really loves to play Civilization
viscid monolith
Imperialists do install colonies though.
gaunt star
@forest magnet except that Gaius was ultimately correct, imagine if he had succeeded in conquering eorzea and eliminating the Primal threat, he likely would have if he found out about the ascians running the Empire sought to remove them from the Empire as well once he found out they were primals or the cause of the primals
unique verge
I mean in fairness, i dont think you can judge Gaius (or anyone who was brought up in the Empire) for their world views
It would be like judging North Koreans for thinking the the rest of the world are evil savages
viscid monolith
My point is no one is going to call a country that forcefully annexes a sovereign nation colonists.
unique verge
Same level of shit
tough fern
Gonna watch Ethys stream of Nier and the MSQ for the juicy tidbits of lore I might have missed
swift kraken
gaius being called correct
what
"im going to subjugate these people for the better good i swear"
viscid monolith
@gaunt star He would be killed on the spot because Ascians literally control the empire
unique verge
Gaius is correct from his own perspective. Because he's been brainwashed by the empire with regards to the impact of primals.
gaunt star
@swift kraken when you got a bunch of Warring nation states, sometimes conquering them is better for everyone
hexed mango
Imperialism is wrong.
viscid monolith
And Gaius is incidentally correct. He didn't know anymore than we did.
unique verge
Remember that the Burn, the supposedly "primal summoning wasteland" wasnt even caused by primals
swift kraken
remember when their emperor died
unique verge
The empire is heavily indoctrinated with misinformation and propaganda
so i have hard time blaming them for their world view
gaunt star
@viscid monolith yes it is a matter of hindsight being 20/20, but how!
swift kraken
or at least eorzea
hexed mango
Regardless of their justification imperialism is really bad.
teal geyser
so i have hard time blaming them for their world view
@unique verge I blame them as a government
unique verge
I disagree
viscid monolith
Gaius had been lied to his entire life. Gaius is right that there are no real gods, but he's a hypocrite because the Empire and throne is his god
unique verge
from the perspective of Gaius, imperialism is the only way to save the world
viscid monolith
And he's even more of a hypocrite for taking Lahabrea's words at face value
static niche
can we talk about how emet's wave is gorgeous?
gaunt star
@viscid monolith so it's a good thing we smack some sense into him huh?
viscid monolith
I guess. He was supposed to die.
teal geyser
I wouldn't say he took Lahabrea at face value but he did trust him more than he should have
unique verge
or i should say, from the perspective of ARR Gaius
viscid monolith
This is most likely going to end with Gaius' death. There are too many people that want him dead.
gaunt star
@viscid monolith but I like my sexy gaius
static niche
i want emet back
unique verge
Honestly i fully expect Gaius to end up ruler of the empire
teal geyser
Fate wth
swift kraken
gaius is sexy until you remember he hooked up with livia
static niche
what
teal geyser
Nah they'll just make another democracy @unique verge
viscid monolith
The throne needs to be abolished
gaunt star
@swift kraken I like Livia as well
unique verge
Ehhh
static niche
can i ask something
viscid monolith
Oh ya Livia is an example of another simple villain I liked
swift kraken
she was literally RAISED by gaius
static niche
i have a real strange vague recollection that the shoebill was involved in MSQ at one point
was it?
unique verge
Republics are for nations that want it and are ready for it
teal geyser
Oh ya Livia is an example of another simple villain I liked
Shield guy > daughter thot
viscid monolith
Gdi I forgot Gaius fucked his adoptive daughter
unique verge
I dont think Garlemald will be prepared to become such a republic
viscid monolith
Gaius is not a good person
teal geyser
Idk Bal they were a republic up till recently
unique verge
"Recently" is a bit of a stretch, no?
teal geyser
Living memory
viscid monolith
It's what Gaius does with all his adopted orphans
royal token
less than 3 generations
teal geyser
I forget the exact date
swift kraken
gaius is legit a disgusting man and i dont want to work with him
viscid monolith
Orphans who are orphans because of Gaius
swift kraken
viscid monolith
Wait no is Livia an orphan
teal geyser
It's probably something like 40 years ago
static niche
so you can work with him
swift kraken
livia is an orphan
teal geyser
@viscid monolith ...yes
static niche
@viscid monolith she's an orphan too yes with her twin sister
static niche
while the twin sister was sent to another
static niche
unlike livia, lucia wasn't indocrinated. unless aymeric's attractiveness is too overpowering.
swift kraken
if i had 2 bullets and i was in a room with emet and gaius id shoot gaius twice
teal geyser
It is too overpowering
swift kraken
yeah exactly
teal geyser
Um
swift kraken
im gonna go discuss genocide with him and why its bad over some tea and cookies
teal geyser
I'd shoot Gaius only because the bullet wouldn't kill Emet
static niche
you means if you were in a room with zenos, gaius, and asahi, you'd shoot gaius twice
swift kraken
ok what if theyre ascian killing bullets
teal geyser
Then I'd shoot Emet
neat edge
shoot the moon
teal geyser
Wait
swift kraken
shoot the moon
swift kraken
yeah
teal geyser
Easy
swift kraken
youre not
gaunt star
So Gaius canonically fucked the adopted ones??
unique verge
Emet - Literally wants to genocide the entire world. Everyone on every shard.
Gaius - I did some bad things because i didnt know better. Also your morality doesnt line up with mine.
Yes i can clearly see why Gaius is "worse than Emet"
lol
swift kraken
supposed to think about ut logically
gaunt star
Someone getting triggered over a video game character morality not being in alignment with the current day real world.
teal geyser
@gaunt star just Livia afawk
viscid monolith
@gaunt star Noooo just Livia
swift kraken
smh
static niche
XD
swift kraken
im not triggered but i guess gaius being a groomer is more relateable to me than genocide man
i dont usually see genocide
of like
viscid monolith
Even though it was Livia's idea Gaius could have said no. But he didn't.
swift kraken
8 worlds
teal geyser
I don't think we know it was Livia's idea
gaunt star
@swift kraken in history fathers would groom their daughters to marry their business partners
gaunt star
@swift kraken it's bad according to today, wasn't bad throughout history
swift kraken
...so?
unique verge
Its a bit hypocritical though
gaunt star
Someone getting triggered over a video game character morality not being in alignment with the current day real world.
@gaunt star are we doing this again? People are supposed to get riled up with fictional chars. That’s how you know the writer wrote an impactful character
swift kraken
you know in game people usually hate thordan more than they hate emet mostly because 1 of them killed your best friend and the other didnt
static niche
thordan didn't kill him tho
unique verge
People assume that Lucia/Aymeric are a thing or will be. How is that any better? Oh right, because 'we like Aymeric' and 'Lucia didnt shoot the brussel sprout person'
static niche
z...whatshisface did
viscid monolith
Emet literally shot Graha in the back and kidnapped him
gaunt star
@gaunt star oh yes, given the context and contents of the story being told, it's always frustrating when people bring their own personal real-world moralities into a world setting that's both fantasy and medieval
swift kraken
didnt die tho
gaunt star
People assume that Lucia/Aymeric are a thing or will be. How is that any better? Oh right, because 'we like Aymeric' and 'Lucia didnt shoot the brussel sprout person'
@unique verge now old is Lucia btw?
viscid monolith
People are just more horny for Emet than Graha is all
static niche
yeah cuz he felt like he had no choice at the time, since we failed to live up to his exceptation
swift kraken
no you see the thing is
viscid monolith
We have an age chart in the pins 1 sec
unique verge
Presumably she and Livia are the same age?
swift kraken
emets villainy is less easily quantifyable
static niche
livia is the older sister
frozen spade
fun fact about the trial. If someone tries to use the LB and it will kill him/overkill him. He'll use true hallowed ground.
static niche
but they're twin
gaunt star
@gaunt star oh yes, given the context and contents of the story being told, it's always frustrating when people bring their own personal real-world moralities into a world setting that's both fantasy and medieval
@gaunt star is this your first time seeing people discussing fictional chars?
swift kraken
you cant imagine with your brain what its like to murder millions
viscid monolith
Oh nooooo Livia was 26
unique verge
I mean, i can
viscid monolith
He's so much older than her
swift kraken
gaunt star
@gaunt star not by a long shot, but I find the behavior childish
unique verge
Okay so, if Livia is 26
gaunt star
@gaunt star not by a long shot, but I find the behavior childish
@gaunt star Ok boomer
unique verge
Gaius is just guilty of....having poor taste?
teal geyser
^
swift kraken
yep
static niche
HAHA
gaunt star
@unique verge they have a personal problem with the relationship situation gaius was in with Livia
teal geyser
Actually why am I getting involved?
static niche
because you're alisaie
swift kraken
you dont just hook up with someone you raised
gaunt star
Calisaie, any idea where the story is headed now? Is fandango all we got?
static niche
but you can hook up with someone who was raised with you
looks at step family incest
gaunt star
@swift kraken yes yes yes, you have a problem with this concept, I have less of a problem with it
static niche
i'm just poking fun don't worry
royal token
viscid monolith
Say sike right now
gaunt star
Yikes
swift kraken
anyone else wanna say theyre ok with grooming
unique verge
idk i kind of have to agree here. modern morality on that subject is actually the exception.
unique verge
Humans were incestuous as fuck for the majority of their existence
static niche
gaunt star
Heretics, I think you dug your own hell dude
viscid monolith
You know what let's just drop this and go back to morally grey villains
gaunt star
!faq juicy
lusty shadowBOT
swift kraken
oh god please dont justify grooming with history
static niche
gaunt star
Ma man
@gaunt star I don't have a mind as to care what people in a video game forum think of my opinion on the matter
Yikes
unique verge
You keep calling it grooming with no evidence for it actually being grooming.
late willow
Guys
dapper yarrow
Cheers
static niche
oh wow, admin got involved
late willow
This is not a topic for this server
swift kraken
its ok im done
gaunt star
Holy fuck it’s Venat
swift kraken
gaunt star
I thought he wasn’t real
dapper yarrow
Where 👀
teal geyser
She
gaunt star
😱😱
plain saffron
Mom please
swift kraken
omg its venat final fantasy uh
gaunt star
I thought she wasn’t real
swift kraken
nine?
gaunt star
We fucking summoned venat
static niche
@dapper yarrow btw can I get badge of shame role? i had to make a new discord acct.
teal geyser
No
swift kraken
i want one
gaunt star
No
swift kraken
how do i get it
static niche
👨⚖️
swift kraken
dapper yarrow
I swear the number of people with badges just keeps growing
We're now at uh... 530 something
static niche
i means i used to be part of that channel so...
teal geyser
How....?
static niche
thx
gaunt star
What even is that role
static niche
nsfw memory
unique verge
Its the role of degeneracy
late willow
It means you're a degen
gaunt star
Oh god
dapper yarrow
It's from having access to the NSFW channel that used to be on this server
static niche
yeah, that old topic haha
timid solstice
my FC is called degen
unique verge
we should apply it any time some tags as Crystal
gaunt star
Just join some hentai server lol
unique verge
lol
static niche
long story short, it got removed cuz of a degenerative douche
unique verge
Anyway
dapper yarrow
When we got rid of it, everyone who had access that had the NSFW role, became the proud owners of a badge of shame 🙂
swift kraken
wasnt it cause of discord partner
static niche
no
swift kraken
unique verge
This is the only proper way to take on SoS EX
static niche
the partner rule was actually just discord pulling things out of their ass cuz it wasn't part of rules lol
unique verge
swift kraken
sosex 
teal geyser
long story short, it got removed cuz of a degenerative douche
/Discord being dicky and being vague with ToS changes
timid solstice
You mean the Seat of S EX
dapper yarrow
Nah, some saltlord posted some stuff in then, then reported it, Discord slapped us
static niche
yeah but that was after the degenerative douche thing
swift kraken
lol
dapper yarrow
Some really not okay stuff
swift kraken
100% lalafell poster
swift kraken
i can smell it from a mile away
unique verge
lalafell posters should be burned alive
dapper yarrow
Anyway! Back on topic please folks, have a nice afternoon/evening/night o/
static niche
i only really vaguely remember what happened back then so don't ask
swift kraken
you too venat final fantasy
timid solstice
I was gonna fanta to lala
static niche
thanks btw venae
timid solstice
because I have 2 fantasias
static niche
i will NEVER touch lalafell race
swift kraken
i wanted to
static niche
cuz 1. short. and 2. i can't immerse
swift kraken
but i feel fucking stupid
timid solstice
I tried lala alt
late willow
But what about the 10% bonus to Int?
unique verge
Even if they werent creepy as fuck, i play melee/tanks. Not playing a midget that i cant see my position for AoE's, no thanks.
swift kraken
im too short i feel like me irl
static niche
worthless actually
timid solstice
name was Nowowo Nowo because that's what the in-game name generator gave me
swift kraken
Owo
timid solstice
and tried to play it 1st person view only
late willow
I wasn't referencing the racial stats
static niche
all it'd do is give you an extra 3 dmg on your skills
swift kraken
im thinking of a new character to make but it has to be consistent with my in-game lore fantasies
late willow
I was making a joke about Gnomes being the best casters in WoW
static niche
well you can make lala alt
but it has to be only gardening
aka afk in someone's garden
swift kraken
garden gnome
unique verge
why bother being the best caster when you can just proc corruption
unique verge
Ah, yes, Classic. I played that for awhile.
Then realized why i like parsing in FF14 better
timid solstice
lala race stat should just be
unique verge
less fuckwitted RNG
static niche
/slap
timid solstice
Every use of fantasia will revert you back to lala but more potato-like
until eventually you turn into an actual potato
unique verge
Ugh
PF already becoming cancerous
All the [Duty Complete] parties for SoS EX want like almost 500 ilvl
unique verge
More a point of
if you're going to tag your group as Duty Complet
AND
"One Player Per Job"
but then set the ilvl requirement high enough that nobody actually would need the weapon
its silly to even have that tag
gaunt star
what ilvl is the new wep? 495?
unique verge
Yup
gaunt star
can't wait to attempt it in like 2.5 months when i get augmented crystarium in every slot 
Would anyone happen to know where I could find a decent version of the "moody" version of tomorrow and tomorrow that plays just before you do the 5.3 trial
I like the joke about how azem/wol special power is just using the duty finder for anything they might have a problem with in the past
ashen coral
I really love how the Duty Finder etc. is basically acknowledged in the lore by that XD
rain badger
waiting for
the apothecary that helped the little mi'qote girl
to show up
and be like
"hi I'm the blatent preview for next expansion's job"
gaunt star
necromancer for caster dps would be nice
unique verge
Necro wouldnt make any sense
rain badger
cause UD = only at night right?
gaunt star
Berserker/chemist pls
ashen coral
^
rain badger
too many jobs intrude on the design space of other jobs T_T
ashen coral
And I'm like 90% sure Necromancer has been shot down multiple times by the team, sadly
unique verge
At this point
unique verge
I think its time for them to stop trying to make FF jobs
and make new jobs
What little is left wouldnt make sense or already overlaps with waht they've made
ashen coral
But I'm going all in on Apothecary now, the hints were too blatant
rain badger
right
ashen coral
Although, the little kitten probably won't be the teaser anymore since there's no reason (as of this moment) for us to be in the First anymore, save dealing with the Eden conclusion
red talon
I read that Azem#s glyph was visible in the trial fight, did someone already figure out which esper glyph it is a part of?
rain badger
fair enough
if they go ink mage
they're going to go full geomancer I think
and have it be a shikigami geomancer
it won't be ink mage per say
unique verge
The thing is that "Ink mage" is just them wanting to use the SCH/SMN model, but without giving it a summon
rain badger
as much as it will be that one
unique verge
Those mobs spammed Ruin spells
gaunt star
alisaie used gladiator animations
rain badger
I can't remember what its called
gaunt star
thancred used gladiator animations
we still got red mage and rogue/ninja
question; where would music videos get posted if they have spoilers?
unique verge
Yeah, but even though they used animations they werent using gladiator abilities
next quarry
rain badger
Ofuda
that's what they're called
If they do ink mage
it'll probly be some asian themed job who uses Ofuda
ala Sailor Mars
gaunt star
Oh like weeb mage
rain badger
yee
gaunt star
oh, like a relm class?
I guess it's only a matter of time since we get more Far East inspired jobs
Because SAM was super well received right
gaunt star
Oh like some naruto shit
rain badger
yeah like imagine konan
hollow sky
so to clear up some foncusion; Azem is unshattered us right?
hollow sky
thats so cool
unique verge
Yes, we are Azem
gaunt star
"foncusion" makes my head hurt
hollow sky
xD
gaunt star
@hollow sky yes. Also, the sigil on the azem stone is literally the "SUN" symbol from ancient egyptian.
hollow sky
I want the woman who wrote shb to write every expac ;-;
rain badger
If they were to do an asian-style caster though how would they translate it in the english version tho
hollow sky
i dont wanna go back to stormblood writing
gaunt star
That makes sense because I'm assuming azem is Azeyma yeah?
unique verge
@rain badger same way they did Samurai. A bunch of indecipherable weeb bullshit.
gaunt star
I loved Shadowbringers, but... I feel it could've used more CONSEQUENCE, but that's a common complaint.
hollow sky
Yeah heretic, i expected to lose someone on the way back
or another lose of sense in one of the survivors, like how thancred lost aether manipulation
gaunt star
I expected Thancred to be gone because he's already diminished aethyrically and crossing the void would kill him
i don't think the ending would have had as much impact if someone died
the ending is wholesome, that feeling of being together again back home
and the whole underlying thing of hope
Like I said, I loved shadowbringers, but there were a couple spots where a little less speech making and a little more consequence would've made it better.
likely a personal preference. But can't fault it otherwise.
rain badger
ok so apparently gosetsu showed up in 3.56
so that means we probly won't get preview character til 5.55
gaunt star
Also wouldn't omnyoji just be like Eastern AST or what
rain badger
in a way sorta
they both have to do with "divination" ish
but it also has to do with yin + yang
- 5 elements
etc.
gaunt star
Hildebrand usually hits right after story wraps up
hollow sky
im clinging hopelessly to the idea that the job tease was the little girl who wanted to be an alchemist
gaunt star
Yeah, Chemist would be a cool new support class were they to do it
sick moon
They cant call it chemist though
rain badger
actually healed for 100% hp
manic night
Could the he Pashtorat/Zeromas sigil could be a good fit for Azem?
sick moon
Would have to call it scientist or apothecary
rain badger
yea they'll probly call it apothecary
unique verge
Chemist vs. Alchemist would be too weird
gaunt star
or Herbalist?
rain badger
its okay
The Chemist (薬師, Yakushi?, lit. Dispenser or アイテム士, Aitemushi?, lit. Item User), also known as an Alchemist (錬金術士, Renkinjyutsushi? or 精錬術士, Seirenjyutsushi?, lit. Refining Technician) or Salve-Maker,
apparently in original japanese
they didn't call it alchemist
they called it Item user
Renkinjutsushi = Full metal alchemist
type alchemist
sick moon
Itd be funny if they went for a blood mage healer instead, like soraka of LoL
hollow sky
well what'd they call it in FFT?
rain badger
Yakushi I'm guessing
gaunt star
they were called Chemists in FFT
pine epoch
In Bravely Default Chemist goes by the name Salve Maker
functions exactly the same but thats the name of the job in that game
rain badger
in FFX-2
they call it "item shooter"
LOL
but the english translation
is "alchemist"
gaunt star
Item shooter afjdgjd
rain badger
in tactics its "item user"
gaunt star
Patissier for 6.0 please
tight isle
so why exactly did elidibus take himself out of zodiark in the first place
gaunt star
I loved all the FFT raids
sick moon
Either way, apothecary/salve maker/scientist/chemist is basically guaranteed at this point. We need a new healer and they just teased one.
tight isle
i don't know if that was ever specified
rain badger
so many different names
for the same job
chemist in FFV
was litreally called
"Kusuri-shi"
literally medicine user
gaunt star
The next Combat class is obviously going to be "Gentleman Inspector"
sick moon
What about a new dps? Think they'll finally put rune fencer back in?
pine epoch
@tight isle if I remember its solely because be believed he'd do better at bringing salvation if he was ejected from zodiark
sick moon
Or rename it runeblade
rain badger
every other game
calls it some "item user" type person
oh nvm
tactics A2
calls it actual alchemist
pine epoch
I think Rune Fencer/Mystic Knight/Spellblade could also have a good chance of making it into FFXIV as a DPS
hollow sky
maybe they'll add blue mage 
gaunt star
I wanna say we won't have rune fencer because we got multiple gear pieces in abania that were "rune fencer's ___"
rain badger
the problem with rune fencer I think
sick moon
I would love a melee counterpart to rdm
pine epoch
it doesn't make it a problem
gaunt star
maybe it's because I play a bit too much atelier games but can the chemist job throw bombs btw in FFT ?
rain badger
that uses ninja armor
pine epoch
Red Mage is 95% a caster
pine epoch
with a 5% melee combo, while in FF history Mystic Knight has never had a magic combo and always has been a Melee user
rain badger
tbh tho
they probly did with red mage
what they did with warrior
where they combined jobs
warrior = zerker / warrior
red mage = rune fencer / red mage
white mage = geomancer / white mage
manic night
@tight isle i think he removed himself because he felt that He HAD too, like it was his duty to help those left, the promise he made but forgot
sick moon
A twin blade class would be incredible, ffxiv still doesnt have one
rain badger
gunbreaker instead of gunblader or something
pine epoch
never say never as long as the devs continue to have creativity anything is possible
frozen spade
so the meteors in trials EX don't overlap. My group found out tanks/healers can stack in the center of the arean and take no damage
rain badger
tank that focuses on debuffing
sick moon
Blood healer, blood healer, blood healer!
gaunt star
I still want a hammer class
sick moon
Like neros class?
pine epoch
tbh gunbreaker doesn't really do debuffing
sick moon
Is there even a name for that? Becuase its hella cool
rain badger
& tactics advance I believe
sick moon
Yeah a lot of people have said nero is. Basically a warrior
hollow sky
I think its safe to say Gaia might be a job hint too, isnt she a chronomancer?
rain badger
maybe
gaunt star
We got a WAR hammer skin too
sick moon
She is?
rain badger
I think that part of the reason for
pine epoch
No Gaia is just her own unique thing
hollow sky
ah
pine epoch
Gaia auto attack and stance is Male Roegadyn warrior stance
rain badger
was so that they could do an actual time mage
pine epoch
as male roes have a unique stance
rain badger
cause AST used to have that
ability that paused buffs
if they do melee-time mage /w hammer
that'd be cool
sick moon
Well, keep in mind alphinaud has his own unique class too, even if it is just modified scholar
sick moon
So nero could just be modified Warrior
gaunt star
the wiki lists gaias class as Voidwalker lol
unique verge
The problem is that its one thing when you have an NPC use a modified clas
pine epoch
Alphinaud and Yshtola both advanced their preferred class and made their own original unique advancement. Yshtola advancing Conjurer back to its 1.0 days of master of all 6 elements
sick moon
Oooh that sounds cool
unique verge
but players wouldnt take it so kindly
pine epoch
alphinaud mastering curative magicks in addition to arcanist
the only thing alphy is missing is learning to summon Phoenix Egi to be a Rez bot or a AOE regen
hollow sky
also I love the near 4th wall break of the twins talking at the end like "wow we didnt really have much character advancement this time around did we"
gaunt star
The thing is yshtola is still a BLM right? But she has access to water/aero
pine epoch
Yshtola is a Fake Black Mage
shes a Super Conjurer
as in lore Conjurer as power over all 6 elements
sick moon
She has a specific class name
sick moon
Scion something something
sick moon
Ahhh that's it
pine epoch
Witch as its known as in JP I believe
sick moon
I was thinking of her nuke my bad
ashen coral
@rain badger as cool as that would be, my FFXI healer PTSD would get triggered so fast if the DRKs in this game had Darkness/Souleater
pine epoch
Drks technically use Darkness
ashen coral
watching DRKs kill themselves XD
sick moon
But... isnt souleater part of their combo
rain badger
in FFIV
darknights had an ability called darkness
which did damage to themselves
but did damage to all the monsters
ashen coral
yeah
rain badger
its pretty
pine epoch
it would drain our MP instead of health
rain badger
iconic dark knight
ashen coral
it's the whole "does damage to yourself" that's the problem
eating your MP is fine lol
rain badger
like I don't even care about the damage to yourself part
I just want the animation to be there
pine epoch
We still have Darkness/Dark Side
pine epoch
its called using edge of shadow/darkenss and flood of shadow/darkness
rain badger
and call it darkness
pine epoch
as when you use it, it activates 30 seconds of darkside/darkness
ashen coral
technically, DRK does have that... Flood of Shadow? They do Cecil's pose from FF4
rain badger
pepehands.jpg
but the name is different D:
they shoulda called the buff
something else
pine epoch
well you cant see the buff
its part of dark knights gauge
where its your face
with a count down
pine epoch
because your using the Edge/Flood of Darkness/Shadow and upon damaging your foe your essentially sucking up their blood to fuel your inner darkness
lunar hound
there's not a lot of design space in an MMORPG for a class that deliberately damages itself
pine epoch
reason FF11 gets away with it
is cause FF11 is Gen 1 mmo
FF14 is a Gen 2 MMO
Gen 2 also known as the tab target
follows the holy trinity
of tank healer dps
Gen 2 can be unique with its limitations and how they can get around it
but the Gen 1 MMOs had no rules
and did whatever they wanted
but also suck
and were time consuming and wanted you to blow your brains out
with certain design decisions
gaunt star
I'm assuming a gen 3 mmo would be like a real time action mmo
gaunt star
Combat wise I was thinking TERA, I never played BDO so maybe that's similar
pine epoch
Gen 3 you can make an argument that Destiny, BDO are Gen 3 MMOs but Gen 3 MMO is not fully defined as of yet
west cedar
I didn't see that coming
sick moon
Okay but consider a soraka type healer, one that has more powerful special heals in return for draining own health, but regenerating it by attacking enemies