wAT
#retired-patch-6-3-discussion
radiant badger
severe brook
it was in response to "no more primals"
bold condor
Real talk, this is the logical conclusion of a society that uplifts violence as virtuous, suffering as righteous, death as aspirational, and morality as unnecessary. Zenos is the epitome of the Garlean ethic and that's exactly why he's destroying it.
unique verge
I mean, i'm a Zenos "hater" but only because he's experienced next to no actual character development. Zenos at start of SB and Zenos as end of 5.3 are practically indiscernible from each other. So until this "Final Days Dream" shit gets him actually developing some, i'm not going to find him that compelling.
gaunt star
DOOOOOOM
bold condor
Because the Garlean ethic is self-destructive.
severe brook
bold condor
It's self-defeating, and as Zenos pointed out it's motivated by fear masquerading as strength.
radiant badger
slender merlin
One note character, he wants to fight a strong opponent that's it
floral aurora
Best beast tribe music
bold condor
k
floral aurora
crimson pollen
Maxima gonna be Garlemald's next ruler. Deep in our hearts we know it
bold condor
I mean, if we're not going to actually make points or whatever, that's cool.
severe brook
it's like watching two steam locomotives charge into each other at full speed
floral aurora
Everyone be happy! XD
coarse pond
I wonder why YoshiP said that this patch's trial is not who we think it is..
But it ended up being Elidibus himself who we all guessed already
floral aurora
Too happy lol
severe brook
i think it's because of who Elidibus became
shell merlin
@coarse pond would you just tell your fans right away
bold condor
It's because it was him in the Primal Warrior of Light form.
shell merlin
or try and hold mystery
bold condor
Which I did predict but it wasn't a very popular theory.
radiant badger
I mean, it's Elidibus at its core, but it's technically the first Warrior of Light who we fought
shell merlin
the OG wol?
radiant badger
Like the OG OG wol
bold condor
Yes.
unique verge
I was pleased that i was right about Elidibus basically not being Eldibus anymore.
radiant badger
Both from FF1 and being the absolute first Warrior of Light in XIV
unique verge
That he's basically just going through the motions
radiant badger
Kind of depends on how you look at it tbh
bold condor
I predicted it looking like the FF1 WoL, too.
severe brook
or at least, the origin of the title on the First
bold condor
It's not actually the FF1 WoL, for the record.
radiant badger
Wellllll.. about that, it doesn't
bold condor
At least no more than say
radiant badger
It's the Dissidia WoL
bold condor
Emperor Xande is the Wizard Xande.
severe brook
unless the original WoL was pre-Sundering, I guess
bold condor
Which is to say they're not the same character.
unique verge
Unllike the Omega raids where its literally the same character
radiant badger
BUT OF COURSE there is ONE response
glacial turret
Isnt it a shiva situation in which he took form of the ‘primal’
gaunt star
DOOM
radiant badger
WHAT
crimson pollen
We need to mix it up, tho >---> Identity of FF1 wol is not "Elidibus", its still unknown
viscid monolith
Ya pretty much
pine epoch
if 5.5 doesn't end with us keeping G-Warrior as a mount I will riot
bold condor
It's sort of implied that the Warrior of Light Elidibus is imitating is probably just Azem, given how that's their "first" hero and all of the reflections of Hydaelyn have a variant of his legend.
viscid monolith
G Warrior is great
gaunt star
What is Elidibus’ real name btw
unique verge
Unknown
severe brook
we never find out
bold condor
We don't know.
severe brook
or at least haven't yet
bold condor
Probably never will, yeah.
severe brook
alternatively
crimson pollen
it doent matter, he was just a primal
bold condor
We learned Hades's because Hades wanted us to know it.
bold condor
Elidibus possibly didn't even remember his own.
gaunt star
he forgot
unique verge
Elidibus couldnt even remember who we were after being shown
He's not really Elidibus
he's about as much the "real Elidibus" after all he experienced
severe brook
he's a bunch of zodiark's aether that thinks it's Elidibus
unique verge
as the creations in Tempest
radiant badger
Elidibus's real name is: Sad Boi
crimson pollen
He is just fullfiling the purpose that he was summoned for, nothing more. Just runnin his duty
rain badger
half expecting
gaunt star
SAD BOI
rain badger
graha tia to do some
hair in the pie
crazy ass shit
and he says
"take me on your next adventure"
drifting scroll
Truly it was sad boi hours then
radiant badger
I mean, using the Crystal Tower to basically eat an Ascian is some pretty crazy shit, let's be honest
pine epoch
I actually do think the OG WoL is sundered Azem. the first hero of the first age post sundering ina ll shards
unique verge
In that sense, Elidibus and Emet-Selch were quite similar, except that Emet because self-aware of his situation.
gleaming bough
I saw this on twitter, is this how lala hold and help exarch.
Man you guys are pathetic, how can you help balance the staff by holding at bottom
Lalafell bad
gaunt star
lala stronk
severe brook
sheer force of physical might
drifting scroll
XD
unique verge
Imagine playing a tiny race
radiant badger
TIL my dude is significantly taller than G'raha.
glacial turret
When are we getting ascian cloud strife trial
crimson pollen
I think in a way Elidibus situation was same as Tiamat described Bahamut - just lived to seek a desire, nothing more. A former shadow of the true being
gaunt star
MINECRAFT
rain badger
the pixelated colors makes me laugh so hard LOL
gleaming bough
Oh yeah when the new moon fire faite start?
radiant badger
Ever thought that maybe.. juuuust maybe, it was intended to look like that? Look at the smaller veins.
severe brook
the ascian that destroyed the seventh shard took the form of cloud strife obviously
gleaming bough
Fire became gore
gleaming bough
Jesus auto correct
polar star
Ok I've only hit the 3rd LB in the extreme but this looks REALLY fun
unique verge
The pixelated shit was dumb but like, i kind of understood it once it starts progressing. A few of the CS's show it from teh side and its really clear that the "crystal effect" is being work essentially as a second skin on top of the model
Its hovering over top of the actual model slightly
gaunt star
So i think people show off Urianger talking of Azam
wary perch
Yoshi should let the robe guy posses Mr sloppy instead of asahi
gaunt star
Where do you guys got it from?
coarse pond
Elidibus sounds more like a fan of Azem who also wanted to become a Warrior of Light, and when transformed he got appearance of... Warrior of Light
drifting scroll
ISTG the new trial was almost every primal combined becauseofnthe mechanics 
radiant badger
@unique verge Look at his neck from the side, specifically. It becomes a lot more clear that way
gleaming bough
Azem is prob the first wol
bold condor
You say that but hellwing
gaunt star
As the joke goes
gaunt star
G'raha is becoming into a Minecraft skin
gleaming bough
Hydo did mentioned azem help bunch on their journey
gaunt star
blue creeper
gleaming bough
So it is possibel the first wol is azem
drifting scroll
He was the one that opposes the plan
crimson pollen
Now you gonna see ppl using that armor from CT/WOLstonks by 1000%
drifting scroll
So probs the first wol
wary perch
Yea that's what I mean, the ascian should have possessed his body instead of asahi
gleaming bough
Azem opposed the plan?
severe brook
i am reasonably certain that ilberd's body was left to rot after he summoned shinryu and died
so he probably won't get possessed by an ascian or echo user
...probably
hybrid nimbus
"final chapter" monkaS
bold condor
Whose body?
hybrid nimbus
this game is confirmed for more than 1 new expansion right
gleaming bough
Technically azem did
hybrid nimbus
👀
wary perch
White griffin
glacial turret
Cid of the lufaine
bold condor
Ilberd's poor af.
prisma warren
Sloppeh
gleaming bough
But iirc azem did not join venat and their plan to summon hydealyn
gaunt star
TOO SLOPPEH
bold condor
You heard Fandaniel.
radiant badger
So, hold on, let's think about something else for a second
Specifically
why is there a fucking ALIEN SHIP UNDER KHOLUSIA?
unique verge
I mean, isnt it obvous? The first WoL was almost certainly Azem. Their sundered soul is in possession of the current actual (not in title only) WoL's
bold condor
Man likes MoNEY.
coarse pond
Azem was the only member of Convocation who refused to summon Zordiak
unique verge
Sooner or later we gonna rejoin into full Azem
bold condor
🤑 🤑
crimson pollen
Azem had no business with Zodiark and didnt want to take part in Hydaelyn summoning, tho at some point he decided to side with her
glacial turret
Fandaniel should’ve possessed moenbryda she didnt deserve to die
wary perch
Haven't clear 5.3 msq so not sure what did he said lol
radiant badger
The bunker. Is in a mountain. And under the bunker is a bloody alien ship.
glacial turret
When I saw her at the instance i cried
rain badger
yo
gleaming bough
@coarse pond but also did mot join venat hydealyn side
bold condor
Fandaniel be like: 🤑 💸 💸 💸
radiant badger
And I'm just like
drifting scroll
Who didn’t cry 😭
unique verge
Thats not Azem...
rain badger
oml
radiant badger
gleaming bough
Azem was out there actually helping ppl on site
glacial turret
Its EMET
rain badger
wait is it not
unique verge
Takkun
bold condor
That's probably Azem.
hybrid nimbus
the handwave was emet's thing though
gaunt star
asahi face is appropriate, all the more reason to punch him in the gut
hybrid nimbus
right?
glacial turret
Gdi
rain badger
OH ROFL
unique verge
WE are Azem
prisma warren
regal sluice
are we able to get the new dungoen boss' armor? The last boss that is
bold condor
Yes, correct, Balmerick.
gleaming bough
Thats emet you fool
unique verge
That is NOT Emet. It is a creation set up by Emet as a failsafe.
glacial turret
No
hybrid nimbus
bold condor
And that's who we summoned.
unique verge
Emet is dead.
rain badger
I'm confused LOL
bold condor
We called upon Azem's memory from the constellation crystal.
gleaming bough
Well at least a gift from emet
rain badger
different people are saying
severe brook
maybe the aliens/androids arrived to try to take over the Source and Hydaelyn shunted them to a Shard to get rid of them, so they crashed
or something i dunno we barely have any nier story
glacial turret
Yoshi P did say we’d see emet in a different capacity tho
rain badger
different stuff
drifting scroll
Yeah technically we come from azems linage cause well he’s the first wol
bold condor
Azem is the one who did the wave.
gleaming bough
Waittt
hybrid nimbus
bold condor
Hell, it's possible the only reason Emet did the wave is in memory of Azem.
gleaming bough
Are you sure that azem
bold condor
Yes, Hades wears a red mask.
rain badger
it makes sense
gleaming bough
I believe its a memory of emet
radiant badger
I'm backing up the creation-by-emet OR Azem thoughts here. We're already well aware that those creations can be bullshit powerful in their own specific functions.
coarse pond
No lol, Yshtola explained it right after the fight
coarse pond
It was emet
bold condor
As an Ancient.
coarse pond
Or his shadow
bold condor
They literally had
radiant badger
But given it's Azem's crystal it'd make more sense to summon him
unique verge
That was definitely Emet, but not actual Emet.
bold condor
That was not Emet
gleaming bough
Oh
hybrid nimbus
yshtola literally says she doesn't know and we might not ever know so
severe brook
I'd thought it was someone other than Azem, because the spell was described as a signature spell that Azem used to summon their allies to their side when needed
crimson pollen
They trying to pull a joker persona for Fandaniel since personalities like these usually resonates with the broader public
bold condor
It's Azem.
unique verge
Whats your proof of this? Its implied heavily that its not.
gleaming bough
But it is cleared that we are the sundered soul of the actual azem right?
rain badger
I thought that
radiant badger
@severe brook The caster is always at the center of those circles, and it's Azem's spell. Ergo, he's the caster.
bold condor
Well, apart from how we see them directly after calling to Azem for help
severe brook
Fair
rain badger
That scene is showing us that
bold condor
And how Hades's mask is consistently shown to be red both as an Ancient and as an Ascian
empty moss
i couldnt help but see * Azem* as Atem
rain badger
that is why Emet had some sort of
"love" towards azem
or rather friendship
he got his wand wave thing
bold condor
And this Ancient's mask looks the same as the one Hades saw
rain badger
from azem
glacial turret
They should’ve added other games’ characters as the limit break
untold gull
we have those things that looked like soul crystals too. or whatever it was actually called
glacial turret
Not jus WoL
severe brook
I feel like that'd feel shoehorned
bold condor
And how the scene where Azem saves us parallels when Hades saw Azem in us before our fight
gleaming bough
Also mean hydo mention azem, his pronounce on azem changed from male to female depending on your character gender
gleaming bough
So azem is definitely us
bold condor
Yes
severe brook
FF1 WoL fits because it's thematically appropriate to have the out of universe First Hero be the in universe First Hero
bold condor
We're the traveler. Our role was basically doing what we've been doing all of FFXIV.
Except as an office.
severe brook
like how a lot of original superhero stories tend to have the first superhero be a superman reference
untold gull
our job is to learn and help people outside
unique verge
We're not calling to Azem though, are we (plus we'd be calling....ourselves?) I took it as we were invoking Azem's special power - one of calling allies to their side as indicated by the Hytholdaeus cutscene where he specified that as something Azem could do.
gleaming bough
And the first wol that appear in story of all world is also azem
untold gull
unlike those stuck inside amaurot
severe brook
but if Cloud were to show up or something, it'd feel a bit random
untold gull
how is it random when we have his bike 
glacial turret
Firion onion knight
bold condor
Calling allies to your side is not an "ability" of Azem
glacial turret
Cecil bartz
gleaming bough
Cuz azem was helping ppl directly after the final days rather than rely on summoning a primal
bold condor
Hythlodaeus is referring to Azem literally
glacial turret
They’re all WoL’s
bold condor
Getting friends
viscid monolith
But the WoL's limit breaks are just other FF limit breaks
bold condor
To help solve trouble
crimson pollen
FF1 WoL will never have a canon identity in the grand scheme of the FF series, tho
bold condor
Not weaving magic
glacial turret
Doesnt he already have one
Isnt he a clone of cid or something
Remember dissidia is canon
rain badger
wut o-o
radiant badger
And there's also Elidibus's big old 'YOU CAN'T BE' thing. IT can't be Emet, because yeah, he dead as dirt; but it can be a conjuration OF Emets specifically for this purpose in case Elidibus and his flawed goals went wild.
Which he totally did because Primals.
And Emet isn't necessarily a bad guy.
AND we know those conjurations can be bullshit powerful in their own right.
But that said, it was summoned in response to praying to Azem's crystal, he's at the center, it's his own signature spell, and we're already all but confirmed to be Azem's fractured soul. Something Emet kind of saw back earlier, too, but we assumed it was Hythlodaeus at the time.
rain badger
Wait how does dissidia account for onion knight vs luneth
glacial turret
But dissidia is canon to the whole of FF afaik
rain badger
from FF3 remake
severe brook
I mean emet-selch was a bad guy
bold condor
"It can't be"
gleaming bough
Lets make this clear, in both french and jp .
When we received the azem crystal.
Hydo said " its back to its rightful owner"
viscid monolith
Dissidia is like, an optional continuation of FF1
bold condor
When he saw Azem
crimson pollen
He is call by a name he "conveniently" doesnt remember
bold condor
It's literally a parallel scene
radiant badger
So while both are possible, it's more likely it's Azem.
gleaming bough
So anyone who said we are not azem are just denying the truth
glacial turret
Who is even saying we’re not azem
rain badger
^
bold condor
Plus, if it was meant to be Hades there are like four different models in the game that would immediately confirm it was Hades.
severe brook
I don't think I've seen anyone saying the WoL isn't Azem
untold gull
they're talking about the ancient that showed up during the WoL fight, not us not being azem
shell merlin
we are split azem then no?
glacial turret
The argument is if the shadow is emet or azem
gleaming bough
Ah man i got confused myself
bold condor
- Red-masked Ancient model.
- Solus zos Galvus model.
- Hades Phase 1.
- Hades Phase 2.
unique verge
The debate is over if the Ascian summoned during the final battle was Azem or a projection of Emet.
radiant badger
It being truth or not isn't 100%. It's a perceived truth based on current facts. Ergo, it's common acceptance.
But we don't actually know for sure, as it's never confirmed.
bold condor
Since it's not any of these, I do not believe it to be Hades.
rain badger
my guess is that
bold condor
And given the description of what Azem's personality was like
radiant badger
Unless the JP dialect says so specifically
rain badger
its azem
severe brook
imagine Hades Phase 1 just showing up to drop off the party and leave
unique verge
I'm currently rewatching the Hythlodaeus CS
rain badger
since we used Azem's crystal
untold gull
i still think it's emet. because how can we summon a version of ourself during a fight like that?
bold condor
Is it really a stretch to think that Azem invented that wave?
rain badger
and that
glacial turret
Idk the hand wave is too much of a confirm to make it as vague as this
rain badger
Azem was the originator of the wave
bold condor
How is that even a question, though, Mistral?
rain badger
Emet was Azem's close friend
gleaming bough
Are you saying emet imitate azem personality?
bold condor
Summoning a version of ourself makes more sense than summoning Emet with an unrelated crystal.
rain badger
pick up phrases / actions
bold condor
And keep in mind
rain badger
from other friends
bold condor
We HAD Emet's crystal
glacial turret
‘Lets make him do a handwave that only one character did exactly the same way, but lets make it not him and make it be yourself but in ascian’
untold gull
where did it say that emet copied azem's wave? because i don't recall that
rain badger
yeah IIRC
bold condor
If they intended it to be Emet, wouldn't we have used Emet's crystal?
gleaming bough
Lol this is getting confusing
bold condor
that's
rain badger
why wouldn't it have been
bold condor
Mistral
rain badger
Emet's crystal
bold condor
That's literally
unique verge
That isnt the argument i was making Rom
crimson pollen
In one the Lore books, Emet had his son killed or something like that - think they abandoned that plotline since it wasnt mentioned anywhere
gleaming bough
Do note that the crystal was created by emet
shell merlin
ngl I am a bit confused how we are apart of the 14th
bold condor
There's only one Azem Crystal, but there's numerous others for the other thirteen.
severe brook
it's not entirely an unrelated crystal, it is one that Emet apparently made in secret and possibly had the shade of Hythlodaeus deliver it to you
radiant badger
We don't know it was created by Emet.
viscid monolith
His son died of an illness
bold condor
Because Hades specially made it.
rain badger
I mean
unique verge
I never implied that Azem Crystal = Emet
rain badger
if Emet MADE the crystal
untold gull
oh, emet's the one that created it
gleaming bough
Cuz originally azem was not going to get the crystal
bold condor
Hythlodaeus said it.
untold gull
i forgot it was said lol
rain badger
it even gives more evidence
bold condor
Azem was not going to have a crystal made because he was a defector.
rain badger
towards Emet copying Azem
viscid monolith
They didn't abandon that plot point. It was brought up in 5.0 iirc.
rain badger
because they're close friends
bold condor
^
shell merlin
so are we related to azem?
severe brook
yes
rain badger
but I literally say a shit ton of slang
shell merlin
iok
bold condor
Azem is our original self.
untold gull
we are azem
rain badger
that my IRL friends say
shell merlin
got it
severe brook
we are the source's incarnation of Azem
gleaming bough
We are basically azem
rain badger
and I also pick up actions
shell merlin
ahh ok
rain badger
that my IRL friends do
gleaming bough
Azem sundred soul
shell merlin
we are azem without memories and being full
makes sense ok
rain badger
cause they become friend group memes
shrewd cypress
hey guys im an ass scion
severe brook
there's basically a chain of reincarnation for each Ancient on each world
shell merlin
ardbert was part of our soul then?
untold gull
yes
slender merlin
It seems a bit of a stretch that it's Azem honestly considering we have no idea what their personality is, why would it be? The finger snap and wave is something Emet did
shell merlin
yes got it ok
glacial turret
You’re giving it way too much thought, why would they give the obvious handwave sign to make us think its emet but not really
shell merlin
so by that logic are we like
severe brook
Ardbert was part of the first's sequence of reincarnation
severe brook
it's like a branching tree kind of
bold condor
Because everything else in the scene points to it being Azem.
shrewd cypress
the ascian in the trial? 100% emet selch
rain badger
and allegories
shrewd cypress
they even say that emet selch had something in place for an event like that
bold condor
A game that
shrewd cypress
like straight up
bold condor
Consistently rewards you
gaunt star
here we go again
unique verge
Okay hold on im SS'ing what i think supports my theory
bold condor
For paying attention to it
pine epoch
I like the fact our Garlean Triple Triad opponent for the expansion is in Turncliff
severe brook
Tenzen was probably also a past incarnation of Azem's shard on the Source
glacial turret
Uhhh
hollow vessel
damn SE getting dark af in the weapons storyline, that legatus had a bunch of personal child slaves in his private office????
glacial turret
Yeah
rain badger
I S2G
glacial turret
Giving it too much thought
pine epoch
also Turncliff reminds me of something
rain badger
if people dont' ask
pine epoch
but I can't remember what
rain badger
yoshi-p this question
during the next live letter
I'm going to die
someone 100% needs to ask yoshi-p for confirmation
shrewd cypress
how are you gonna see the hand wave and think it's anyone other than emet
rain badger
on this
shrewd cypress
contrarians smh
severe brook
hey he got out of the empire good for him
here's hoping emerald weapon doesn't wipe Terncliff off the map in the next patch or what have you
shell merlin
if its not EMET its an emet thing
radiant badger
Because emet's dead as dirt, and Emet never actually used that type of summoning circle in any fashion.
rain badger
because frirends IRL
rain badger
do stuff like that?
shell merlin
so wait
crimson pollen
This is like Madara is Obito alrdy
shell merlin
only emet did
slender merlin
You guys are putting way too much thought into this
shell merlin
only emet did that walk and hand wave
so if its not emet or something from emet
severe brook
seiryu's familiars were nothing but memes
bold condor
Anyway, my reasons for believing it to be Azem are.
- The model is a white-masked Ancient. When we see Hades as an Ancient, his mask is red.
- The lines of the scene directly parallel the scene in which Hades sees Azem in us.
- We see the shade after invoking the Azem constellation crystal.
- We had Emet-Selch's stone on hand at the time, too, meaning it would be more obvious if we used that.
- Emet-Selch only did that wave to us, and only after trying to get us to remember we were Azem.
shell merlin
thennn what the fuck is it
hollow vessel
also blue hair au ra didnt pilot the sapphire weapon, what a twist!
bold condor
Emet-Selch doesn't use that wave to anyone else.
glacial turret
bold condor
He only does it to us.
coarse pond
I always meme as a Moogle when I get a chance, kupo!
radiant badger
It is stated that Emet potentially set something up beforehand, yes, but at the same time, that spell is LITERALLY Azem's entire schtick. Hythlodaeus even says so himself- when shit goes south, he tends to just say fuck it and summon in his allies.
shell merlin
so its
untold gull
i still think it's emet. that's just my side tbh. because he created the crystal for azem. and we're azem. it's not just about the handwave and what not but the power imbued in that crystal was emet's
shrewd cypress
yeah its emet
untold gull
yeah he did
bold condor
Okay, Mistral.
slender merlin
It's just a flippant thing that Emet does, why does it need to be a signature move amongst his ascian friend group?
shrewd cypress
he set it up
radiant badger
It's a construct of Emet's or it's Azem's soul. One or the other; fact of the matter is, we don't have enough information.
shell merlin
its literally
a construct from emet
again
glacial turret
Yeah Im pretty sure its emet as well
bold condor
I hate trying and then people just go
shell merlin
you cant get taht fuckign hand wave
rain badger
idk just @ yoshi-p next live letter
shell merlin
from anyone else
rain badger
easiest solution
bold condor
"Well I don't believe anything you say"
rain badger
I mean they literally do
crimson pollen
Its Lahabrea obviously
shell merlin
"maybe"
rain badger
Q&As lol
shrewd cypress
"whether it is emet is up for debate haha"
crimson pollen
lalabrea in lala form
shell merlin
viscid monolith
They never answer good questions at QnAs
untold gull
"Well I don't believe anything you say"
where in the world did i bloody said that
severe brook
Lalabread
shell merlin
anyways its NOT emet, but its something from emet
severe brook
the traditional meal of Old Sharlayan, Lalabread
shell merlin
no more
glacial turret
Yeah QnAs is probably just gonna ask for more bunny outfits and housing
gaunt star
godammit guys obviously it's the kid ancient that ask how babies are made 
coarse pond
How you guys can be so unsure it's Emet
Only Emet did that movie and Yshtola explained that right after the fight saying it's Emet's spell to help us end Elidibus suffering by having the entire burden alone
shrewd cypress
crystal players gonna ruin the qna
glacial turret
Yes
shell merlin
THANK YOU BLU
shrewd cypress
100% emet
radiant badger
If we're going to go realistically, it's pretty common for actions to be shared upon peers.
I mean fuck my social group has been imitating ant colonies for the past like three months.
Swear to god, when they randomly just start yelling out LIFT
PULL
PROTECT QUEEN
it's always a bit of a hoot, tbh.
crimson pollen
You'll be broken heart when lalabrea turns out to be Papalymo Ascian
glacial turret
Thanks blu i agree
untold gull
i was just putting my opinion forward. i get your point too, i wasn't disclosing it as 'it's definitely not that, am the one at right blah blah blah' 
shrewd cypress
ty blu
untold gull
was a nice discussion until you said that
glacial turret
i was just putting my opinion forward. i get your point too, i wasn't disclosing it as 'it's definitely not that, am the one at right blah blah blah' :ablobglarezoom:
@untold gull funny enough he’s doing just that because we’re trying arguments for it being emet too and he’s just like ‘no im right you’re not’
shrewd cypress
papalymo died and lyse lived 
radiant badger
Nobody cares about that annoying twat of a potato
shell merlin
fuckin LYSE
shrewd cypress
why couldnt they reverse
glacial turret
Lyse sucks
shell merlin
I DIDNRT LIKE LSYE OR PAP
gaunt star
papalymo died because the Japanese VA too expensive
shell merlin
REE
gaunt star
shell merlin
@gaunt star 
shell merlin
5/5 you FUCKIN AU RA
untold gull
it's still an interesting debate tbh. because there's no definite answer to it and there's evidence of it being either or
bold condor
The reason I said that is because I gave like
wary perch
Who is papa jp va?
rain badger
yo that au'ra kid
bold condor
Five bullet points to my point
bold condor
And not a single one even got addressed
bold condor
No one even bothered debating any of them, and it's fine to not agree but
gaunt star
eri kitamura> Who is papa jp va?
@wary perch
glacial turret
This is the best new character and she definitely needs to be playable
glad maple
We are getting clapped in this new nier. Raid
bold condor
Like, how am I supposed to feel it's not just blowing my opinions off like that? It's not like I don't see why you'd think it's Emet.
radiant badger
So here's two good questions
- How the fuck was all this hidden under a mountain?
- WHAT the FUCK happened to blow it all up?
empty moss
This is the best new character and she definitely needs to be playable
@glacial turret yes and no ,
shrewd cypress
i have like 2 raid groups going into the puppet's bunker tomorrow
glacial turret
Yes and YES
bold condor
If I didn't, I wouldn't have offered counterpoints to why I think it's not.
next quarry
The mountain blew up
shrewd cypress
im glad i dont have to run with df poopers
viscid monolith
@radiant badger bombs
untold gull
oh i dunno, maybe because i type slow and i was writing down my opinion and the text moves so fast to even notice what you said
glad maple
No progress
shell merlin
@glacial turret bro if you dotn get her when she is looking UP at you
radiant badger
Why would they blow up their own base though. And that still doesn't explain the goddamn alien ship under the mountain especially
slender merlin
People can have opinions and not need to debate about it.
severe brook
i'm going to stick with "they tried invading the Source way back when and Hydaelyn flung them to the First where they crashed"
glacial turret
Ong
shell merlin
fuckin
bold condor
Cute miq
glacial turret
Shes so cute i love her
empty moss
i agree with Yoshi , Children shouldn't be playable
glacial turret
Lalafells are trash compared to this gloriousness
untold gull
that kid is so cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuute
shell merlin
bold condor
I don't see how that's really relevant
coarse pond
Ngl when I saw the tiny catgirl I was so afraid this will be the character YoshiP warned us will die
glacial turret
This tiny catgirl is cuter than khloe
untold gull
omg, it's an emote already 
shrewd cypress
hopefully zenos just slips on a banana peel and die
shrewd cypress
shitty character smh
empty moss
This tiny catgirl is cuter than khloe
@glacial turret Heresy
crimson pollen
Our character will never be the Big Boss/Geralt type, tho. We will always be the Superman/Steve Rogers idealistic type
glacial turret
I hate the degenrates plaguing this game
shell merlin
take it
bold condor
unique verge
@bold condor
Okay. This is the entire relevant section of the Hythlodaeus conversation. The most important pieces, imo, are the first, and the last three. I believe that the "magick of her own conceiving" is what you are "wish upon with all your heart" at that stage of the Trial and the magick itself is what answered your call and allowed you to thus invoke it. Given that "call upon her comrades" is immediately followed by "such is the magick sealed within...the magick to summon the stars to your side" i believe it to imply that Azem's special magick was specifically being able to call upon the convocation directly because of it being that they would be the "stars" in this context.
severe brook
you've decapitated her
unique verge
I may be way off base, but that's why i am of that opinion
gaunt star
unique verge
Combined with the fact that Emet is implied to have set up a failsafe in post-Trial conversations
severe brook
amazing! that's why you're the best, boss
bold condor
Hmm, that may be correct.
unique verge
This is why i believe that the Ascian who appears in the trial and handwaves is Emet's "failsafe" creation
radiant badger
Also the fact that we're Azem is all but confirmed by one tiny little detail.
The Her's/Him's are based on your own characters' sex in that dialogue. For my dood, it's all him's.
bold condor
I didn't notice the "such is the magick" line, but yeah it might very well be Hades, then.
empty moss
i think you over thinking this
glad maple
Where do I find the extreme version of warrior of light fight?
glacial turret
Its Emet its too obvious and you’re all giving it too much thought! We’ve never seen any other character do that and its just too obvious
slender merlin
Cheers Balmerick, pretty much what I believed too but couldn't be arsed going to the effort to source it all. 😄
shrewd cypress
@glad maple crystarium, the minstrelling wanderer or something
empty moss
the ability to call on others in not so much the convocation , but the Duty finder itself
bold condor
Okay, Daisy, I already admitted I was probably not correct.
shrewd cypress
ex trial is ezpz
glad maple
Really
shrewd cypress
yea we cleared blind in a couple hours
shell merlin
glad maple
Normal version seemed ez af
shell merlin
there
open verge
Poor emet decided to just put elidibus out of his misery
glacial turret
Urianger is ugly
unique verge
I mean, i dont think its particularly useful to argue "its obvious its Emet because of the handwave"
open verge
I mean
gaunt star
YARE YARE DAZE
unique verge
I think that the Hythlodaeus convo is the only thing that solidifies it for me
zealous mulch
I wish i remembered this scene before i did the last trial sigh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cJ_Bkae3Zk
open verge
Who else would it be
untold gull
urianger being extra during the scene after they woke up tho
bold condor
Literally anyone with hands.
heady shadow
so.... I did things.
glacial turret
I just feel they went for the obvious trademark handwave to make it obvious its him
Idk
I didnt think much about it
unique verge
A handwave alone didnt prove anything. That's why i went and got the Hythlodaeus convo
empty moss
they did
untold gull
shell merlin
IMAGINE THINKING ITS NOT RELATED TO EMET WHEN HE IS THE ONLY ONE TO DO THAT HAND GESTUR 
bold condor
You're not wrong, I'm just saying that the convo made it clearer.
glacial turret
When I first saw it I was like ‘oh cool its emet’ instantly
radiant badger
Oh yeah, urianger went full chunni.
zealous mulch
i didn't catch the hand wave. i know its obvious that i should know but i miss the punchline sigh
gaunt star
great to see him open up
clear sequoia
Urianger killing it this entire xpac
radiant badger
Or chuuni. Idfk.
clear sequoia
Best scion
gaunt star
instead being back to emo hoodie boi
carmine basin
I JUST FINISHED MSQ
bold condor
I agreed and changed my opinion...
radiant badger
empty moss
anyway im exited for the rematch with Zeno's
glacial turret
Ill never understand why anyone likes yshtola
bold condor
I'm sorry I thought otherwise.
shell merlin
@bold condor good its ok
viscid monolith
Sometimes there's more to something than just its surface. Sometimes there isn't. That's why you have to find actual proof.
untold gull
she's a smartass
shell merlin
untold gull
that's why
carmine basin
unique verge
Hey, i think Rom was right to have that opinion without the Hyth convo as context.
empty moss
Y'shtola is bae
viscid monolith
And not just say "It's obvious"
crimson pollen
What about Tataru - she makes the show run for real
pine epoch
I can see patch 5.5 rewarding us with a G-Warrior Light version. Thats essentially a G-Warrior designed for piloting around.
gaunt star
untold gull
yeeeeeeeees
radiant badger
People like Y'shtola because frankly, this level of sass is hard to pull off properly
And she fucking nails it
untold gull
YES
unique verge
Assuming its Emet (actual Emet, not a projection) is actually just flat wrong.
unique verge
Emet's dead and gone
whole pine
I don't like Y'shtola, but I respect her XD
shell merlin
ulrgaingerrr is dad
she is mom
twins are our annoying fucking siblings
gaunt star
I'll fight, after i had my fugging tea
empty moss
its Emets last fragments of his memeory
shell merlin
thancred is uncle
viscid monolith
I want more from my character than just sass after 7 years.
radiant badger
bold condor
It's Azem's power to call allies to their side.
untold gull
ryne is the cousin
crimson pollen
its okay, the day is coming Ejika Tsunjika to be a Scion to replace dead Papalymo
viscid monolith
I'm sick of sass
unique verge
Its not though. Its a failsafe that Emet set up before the end of 5.0
severe brook
the only way it could be actual Hades is if it's calling up his spirit from the Aetherial Sea for a moment and then he returns again
bold condor
Yes, the failsafe is the Azem stone.
severe brook
using Azem's crystal like a beacon
shell merlin
@unique verge ye
but easier to say emet
bold condor
Isn't that what the quote you sent me said?
radiant badger
I'll take sass over outright bitchiness any day
carmine basin
AHHH I HAVE ANOTHER TRUST TO LEVEL TO 80
viscid monolith
Yshtola os getting a fucking Burst Weapon in Dissidia and all she has is sass.
carmine basin
😭
untold gull
lol, well enjoy cat boi since he can do any role
shell merlin
what
glacial turret
Tfw in dissidia yshtola is still a conjurer but now shes canonically a blm
viscid monolith
Sometimes Yshtola is just a bitch
shell merlin
unique verge
@bold condor I believe the failsafe to be a creation along the same level of Hythlodaeus - but of Emet himself. the stones themselves are part of it though as well.
empty moss
Tfw in dissidia yshtola is still a conjurer but now shes canonically a blm
@glacial turret sorcerer
heady shadow
wellll....
since flying exists I went to Moonshade isle.
theres.... not much there,.
but a few mobs, some ships with sahagin on them
and a npc mount thing for the sahagan beast tribe that takes you back Novv's nursery.
bold condor
It said "the power to summon the stars to your side" though.
glacial turret
Whatever
empty moss
Stola is all coloured mages from what i see
bold condor
To me, that would seem to refer to making simlucra of the Convocation.
severe brook
so if Elidibus was summoning the desire to destroy evil from the souls of heroes all over the Shards, and we killed them, does that mean a bunch of heroes across the multiverse have suddenly become really apathetic?
bold condor
Being represented by constellations as they are.
unique verge
That's possibly correct.
carmine basin
Anybody knows if Thancred, Urianger, and Y'shtola are hanging out somewhere?
unique verge
I think the actual nature of what the Emet that appeared was is open to interpretation
heady shadow
where they were sleeping
untold gull
yeah, quite possibly since yeah, it said each seat was based on constellation and what not, or whatever it was they said exactly
bold condor
I think we're saying the same thing in two different ways.
heady shadow
their bodies nywy
bold condor
Because we're both not saying it's the real Emet-Selch.
sterile crane
what was our seat again
crimson pollen
Y'shtola and Thancred... you just know they have this casual undergoing thing. That final scene is just to remember that. They may have each their own thing going own, but they will be always friends with benefits.
bold condor
Fourteenth.
unique verge
Well its more "is it a creation that Emet set up like Hythlodaeus, to be triggered in the event of his death" or "is it essentially Emet's memories being made manifest by his crystal which we also have"
sterile crane
no the title
severe brook
the Fourteenth, that of Azem
unique verge
I think that is up to interpretation
sterile crane
Azem
severe brook
like the role
sterile crane
nice
glacial turret
Thancred and yshtola definitely banging
bold condor
I mean, he made the crystals for us to be found in the event of his death.
unique verge
They're pretty similar so i dont think it matters
obsidian osprey
i just came in here
peak rune
What makes you say that
obsidian osprey
and the first thing i see
bold condor
So it's still the same thing, just one is more long form.
glacial turret
They just ARE
unique verge
Yeah more or less
obsidian osprey
IS that Thancred and Yshtola are banging...
rare sinew
Hank shush
obsidian osprey
Ok...
peak rune
There's zero romantic chemistry between those two
obsidian osprey
I have a question
gleaming bough
Cant believe yshtola wear black hempens
gleaming bough
What a thot
obsidian osprey
Did Zenos show up?
peak rune
No, he's still taking a nap
crimson pollen
same usual Zenos
polar star
Ok I got a really good group for WoL extreme
glacial turret
Y’shtola is a limsa thot
sterile crane
So does this mean
polar star
This is a fun fight
viscid monolith
Zenos shows up
polar star
Add phase is really somethin
pallid quiver
@carmine basin after msq you can find em at same room their bodies were kept in mor dhona
sterile crane
I get to kill that annoying fucker this time
peak rune
Yes Zenos but he's literally just on his ass fantasizing about putting a sword up the WoL's ass
crimson pollen
He shows up but it is just the same thing again... he is there bored, etc...
obsidian osprey
that makes sense....i guess
peak rune
He shows up but it's legit just him sitting down
glacial turret
Zenos is a really boring villain
obsidian osprey
: P
viscid monolith
Not on the first. We just see what hes up to elsewhere.
glacial turret
He was okay in stormblood but why keep him for so long
shell merlin
@obsidian osprey watch it youll like the reveal
obsidian osprey
Ok
obsidian osprey
Hopefully after i finish this slide....i guess or no
shell merlin
so im assuming it will work into the plot
unique verge
What reveal
gaunt star
So is it over for the stories for First? Poor Lyna and Ryne
obsidian osprey
ill just do it tommorow
obsidian osprey
something to look forward to
shell merlin
you dope
unique verge
Oh that
bold condor
They probably planned Zenos to come back before Stormblood even released.
unique verge
That wasnt a "reveal" to me
bold condor
He has all the hallmarks of a final boss villain.
shell merlin
FANDANIEL GUYS
unique verge
I recognized the voice the second it appeared in previous patch
viscid monolith
They're changing up what they're doing with Zenos anyway
bold condor
Sadist, god complex, nihilistic, pretty boy.
obsidian osprey
Zenos is like the sephiroth of the series......to the devs at least
shell merlin
the actual person
glacial turret
No personality, pretty, huge armor and 3 big ass swords?
viscid monolith
Now he has someone to bounce off of
bold condor
Basically 10/10 Sephikefkaroth.
obsidian osprey
^^
unique verge
I just hope that Zenos gets some actual character progression/dev
obsidian osprey
At least he isnt bland
bold condor
I mean
obsidian osprey
so Zenos is already better than Sephiroth
bold condor
Depends on who you ask
obsidian osprey
oh true
bold condor
A lot of people here find him bland.
glacial turret
Zenos is definitely kinda bland imo
viscid monolith
There's some Garland in there too
unique verge
My main gripe isnt that he's bland, its that his character doesnt evolve at all
obsidian osprey
To me at least hes badass in stormblood
balmy linden
Remember when Nael was our bootleg Sephiroth?
Me member.
bold condor
I would like to see Fandaniel have any sort of influence on him tbh
gaunt star
Even Y’shtola doesn’t evolve
severe brook
i think that sephiroth in 7/crisis core was probably more developed than zenos is
viscid monolith
Villains don't usually evolve though
glacial turret
He’s like one dimensional
bold condor
I don't expect him to like
gaunt star
Ppl still love Yshtola
bold condor
Love Fandaniel or anything
obsidian osprey
At least the main villains at least
bold condor
But it'd be nice to see him enjoying someone's company for once
viscid monolith
At least they don't evolve in FF
gaunt star
he doesn't seem to like fanny
unique verge
Emet is the most loved villian in the series and he evolved like fucking crazy
gaunt star
or cnt be bothered about him
unique verge
So i reject that villains evolving is wrong
bold condor
That's true, most FF villains, even in FFXIV, don't evolve.
glacial turret
Kuja definitely evolved
bold condor
I said most.
obsidian osprey
But thats kuja...
viscid monolith
Emet Selch didn't evolve either. We just learned more about him.
severe brook
Kuja was cool
glacial turret
Im soeaking to lance
glacial turret
He said none
shell merlin
wtf
unique verge
Emet evolved like crazy are you kidding me?
obsidian osprey
Emet evolved?
glacial turret
Golbez also evolved
obsidian osprey
I mean
severe brook
People judge him by his appearance too much
woeful bobcat
Gaius is still looking for última weapon
shell merlin
@viscid monolith you dohave brain damage your name is no joke
bold condor
That's not evolution, he just stopped being mind controlled.
glacial turret
But he did in the sequel too
shell merlin
but no actually
obsidian osprey
He changed his mind about us in the end and said his iconic quote
bold condor
There is no sequel in Ba Sing Se.
obsidian osprey
so yes
bold condor
The King of Baron has invited you to Lake Laogai.
obsidian osprey
I guess u can say he evolved
crimson pollen
FF as a series is curious as it produced more iconic heroes than iconic villains - if we ask random about FF heroes, might know about 3 or 4, but villaisn? might name Seph and thats it
obsidian osprey
but not by much i think?....
viscid monolith
Nate I don't know you
obsidian osprey
Kefka is dope
shell merlin
did I ask brain
glacial turret
Caius from xiii kinda evolved
obsidian osprey
He is depression incarnate
viscid monolith
I'm telling you
bold condor
I mean, Sephiroth, Kefka, and that's about it.
shell merlin
did I ask
viscid monolith
You didn't need to
obsidian osprey
well
bold condor
He kind of has a shift in motivation
obsidian osprey
Actually
Idk if this counts
but i watched this good video analysis on Kefka XD
So
shell merlin
what villans didnt evolve and just got yeeted in ff14?
bold condor
He goes from "destroy everything to try to feel something" to "that didn't work, destroy everything anyway."
obsidian osprey
Techniquely u can say he did evolve....sorta
bold condor
Lahabrea.
shell merlin
crazy uh
obsidian osprey
I feel bad for elidibus
unique verge
Eh, Nidhogg wasnt really Nidhogg when we finished him off.
woeful bobcat
Yotsuyu
shell merlin
ill whatever
obsidian osprey
Hes his own hero in his own story
shell merlin
i forget his name
bold condor
Yotsuyu did evolve.
obsidian osprey
Too bad its a sad story
glacial turret
If VIIR really is a sequel and sephiroth is kinda good now does it count as evolving
shrewd cypress
zenos is a trash villain i hate that he keeps coming back
obsidian osprey
where everyone he loves dies
bold condor
SB has like
viscid monolith
Sephiroth is not good
glacial turret
zenos is a trash villain i hate that he keeps coming back
@shrewd cypress agreed
shrewd cypress
hhehh i like to fight :)))))
shell merlin
you guys are all zenos haters for the wrong reason
obsidian osprey
Sephiroth isnt good indeed
unique verge
Thordan didnt, but i think that Thordan was made up for by his entire nature being a mystery for most of it.
shrewd cypress
your my friend warrior of light
obsidian osprey
hes a good obstacle/villain tho
obsidian osprey
but a genuinely good antagonist
bold condor
this convo real cyclical
obsidian osprey
nope
glacial turret
I meant good as in alignment
shell merlin
yah illberd didnt either he psycho
unique verge
Ilberd extremely one-dimensional
obsidian osprey
Im glad i got to get a wack at him during the anamesis thing
bold condor
he's a dick but he's not one-dimensional
pine epoch
Ok so I checked 5.0 Gaius model has a error
glacial turret
If theres anyone thats one dimensionalvits zenos
obsidian osprey
Hes still a dick
bold condor
if anything he has the most relatable motive of any antagonist
obsidian osprey
and an sly asshole
shell merlin
lmao
pine epoch
5.0 gaius still has his black wolf mask. But his 5.2 and 5.3 model the mask isn't there
unique verge
i'd disagree with that strongly.
woeful bobcat
Zenos > all your fav characters
unique verge
Emet is far more relatable than Ilberd
crimson pollen
Yeah, Lahbrea was extremely one dimensional, kinda 60's criminal personality with striped shirt and mask
obsidian osprey
I love Zenos c; my rival
shell merlin
zenos is a good villan and he will be better soon
bold condor
Emet-Selch: i was sad once so now i will commit multiple planetary genocides
glacial turret
ExDeath had the most evolution
obsidian osprey
MY RIVAL.....my enemy....
shell merlin
ah shit
bold condor
Ilberd: My people are literally being murdered, worked to death, and sexually abused and no one is doing anything about it.
severe brook
i didn't expect to see ilberd vs. hades fan wars tonight
shell merlin
before we fought
woeful bobcat
Hurt me more
shrewd cypress
exdeath is a tree
obsidian osprey
along with friend,rival, and of course my enemy
glacial turret
Locke im obviously jk
shell merlin
@obsidian osprey just do DRK job and youll see your other half 
obsidian osprey
too bad we wont see him soon :c
glacial turret
ExDeath is evil just because he’s evil