Is there a combat triangle etc? I know that healers are OP in 1v1 but what about tank vs dps?
#archived-player-vs-player
crystal valve
carmine plank
i think melee tops all atm
If you want to read about the pvp modes you can check them out here
crystal valve
Thanks for the basics, but I was more looking for advanced strats. Something like a pov of someone who's experienced would come in handy.
glad silo
As tanks: generally prevent others from doing objectives or finishing off your teammates
Also stay away from any melee dps in 1vs1 otherwise you just get obliterated
quaint dagger
as tank you also get some value by harrasing healers
since you are able to engage into their team a bit
but you will get killed if you run in too deep away from your healers
they recently added quite a bit of value to tank pvp since we got a dash, heal potion and some utility
rich moth
yeah, but they changed up some stuff in general for some classes
like MCH had a knockback + stun ability, removed the stun from it with the latest patch
mild mural
If you're quick enough, you can follow up a knockback with a stun or even a ranged LB and it'll hit guaranteed. Timing is everything though
Also @crystal valve sounds like you were describing Secure. It's not the best way to put it, but Secure operates like the reverse of Shatter; you want to cap and hold more bases than you want the drones at mid.
Drones ARE good for scoring, but since they're only active every 4 minutes after the last set, but bases are always active, the bases are your main scoring objective
crystal valve
I have no clue what those terms mean
mild mural
And for each extra base you get, point ticks double:
1 base = 1 pt/3 sec
2 bases = 2 pts/3 sec
3 bases = 4 pts/3 sec
4 bases = 8 pts/3 sec
5 bases = 16 pts/3 sec
6 bases = 32 pts/3 sec
The Borderland Ruins (Secure). The hexagon map
Actually, looking again, you mentioned crystals to hit. . . Was it a snowy map?
vernal wing
hey guys, new player trying to get into pvp. which has longer queue times, frontlines or the feast solo ranked?
glad silo
Generally Frontlines
Avoid Feast Solo Ranked if you are inexperienced
Cuz you will get completely rekt there and your team will most likely not be happy
remote merlin
Feast solo ranked doesn't exist
It's training that pops
So feast training ranked has the longest que time
vernal wing
just tried queuing for both. couldn't find a game for feast solo ranked whereas frontlines was very fast.
i'm guessing its because i'm low ranked in feast.
should i just play training instead of ranked? i just want to play
mild mural
There's not a ranked season going currently, so training would be your best bet
carmine plank
eh everyones gotta start somewhere. When the feast season starts it'll start new players out as unranked, and no one expects much of you there. You don't even lose points for losing games.
The real challenge comes once you climb your way up to gold and you start getting matched with platinum players. It's common for new players to hit a wall there.
vernal wing
when does the next season start?
mild mural
Popular thought is 5.15 but nothing's been mentioned in regards to it yet
vernal wing
how long does a season usually last?
glad silo
5.15 - 5.2
Should be able to easily get to silver or so
But everything past might be hard
vernal wing
any tips for frontlines melee damage dealer? what's a good number for dmg dealt per match?
mild mural
Damage isn't really the best metric of skill or efficiency in PvP. Granted you can easily tell what's a little vs what's a lot, but to put it in perspective, back in 3.x, in 8v8 Feast me and a BRD had fairly close damage in the 230k range, but I had 10 kills to their 0.
In Frontlines, I rarely pull incredibly high numbers even if I rack up kills, but that's more due to only really attacking to kill. Sure, I'll tag a passing target on a mount or maybe attack but not finish someone escaping, but I generally only go all in on damage when it secures a KO.
cerulean shadow
hows the pvp in this game, is it meaningful ?
and why isnt there any open world pvp ?
mild mural
Your mileage may vary on that one. Many players were dedicated to it and there were a lot of skilled players before the rework last expansion. But SE made a lot of changes with almost none of their feedback in mind, and while they actively support it more than they did then, the changes they make are often questionable. This alienated many of the old vets, while newer players largely haven't really tried to learn how PvP works and generally treats it as a means to an end for rewards. That doesn't mean it's not fun, but it definitely means it's more fun the more you understand it
As for open world, the immediate things that come to mind are how it would negatively impact gathering, hunts, and some of the other, non-combat open world content. By and large the player base of the game is rather cold to the idea of PvP even in it's current form. Open world would be a deal breaker for many. Some would enjoy it, but far too many things would have to be readjusted to make it work.
carmine plank
PvP has some of the rarest rewards in the game if you really get into it and can place high in ranked seasons. By that metric it's meaningful. You'll get a wide range of responses as to whether the pvp is fun/good. Best to just try it yourself and see how you feel about it.
mild mural
leaden bane
Tachion put it pretty succinctly. If you want unique strictly cosmetic rewards you wont find anywhere else in the game, PvP has those and is meaningful in that regard. Actual statted gear stopped being a thing after Heavensward.
Re: how is the PvP?: You get out of it what you put into it and it's entirely subjective as to whether you enjoy it or not. If you enjoy the gameplay and competition, you might enjoy it but it's really a person to person thing - best to decide that one on your own.
As far as open world PVP, not sure. PvP toolkits are entirely different from PvE kits now, and I think SE is pretty hesitant to have any direct player vs player instancing outside of a directly competitive environment because of the issues that could arise from something like that. I dont think they've ever given a specific answer to why there isnt any, though.
rich moth
There is also the story aspect on why it exists in wolves den but not in the open world.
But yes, since the rework you have a pvp and pve hotbar with specific skills and abilities exclusive to each other. Before that rework you used the same hotbar and same skills and skills that were absolutely useless in pve were great in pvp etc
mild mural
All the lore-based reasons for PvP generally boil down to joint military training, land/mining rights disputes for Frontlines, and anti-Magitek military training for Rival Wings
rich moth
Yeah, and since everyone is united there is not much leeway to have open PvP going on
glad silo
To the thing with damage
I generally hit around 300-800k damage in Frontlines when i play Ninja/DRG but only if i manage to snowball
eager cove
Hey, anyone wants to play pvp together? Queue takes too much time. I play white mage or dark knight. Interested both in feast and battleground. DM me. i am on EU Chaos Louisoix
glad silo
Might want to add which Datacenter you're on
eager cove
@glad silo EU Chaos Louisoix
normal tinsel
is that an actual question?
devout harbor
Training isn't good to train unless you can find yourself someone who wants to be a dedicated healer main to train with
carmine plank
better than the alternatives which are frontline or nothing 🤷♀️
shrewd lava
I prefer rival wings. No BS 2v1 scenario.
bright bolt
You sure about that? There are a lot more smaller scrimmages where it ends up as a 1-3v1-3 which an objective in the background. Also, when one of those 1s turns out to be a giant robot, that adds an interesting layer into the usual conflict.
plucky finch
Rival Wings can get irritating when your alliance is bad. In Frontlines, sometimes the other alliances fighting each other can help you when your alliance is bad
I've had games where we lose in 5 mins or less, requeue, same thing happens
glad silo
Melees are a joke in Frontlines
normal tinsel
Que up feast on crystal
we're going to make it pop again like we did yesterday
:)
crystal is now popping
normal tinsel
ques are slowly dying and ggs to those who joined Crystal Feast night
see yall next time
remote merlin
The feast 🚮
normal tinsel
normal tinsel
it will be 8pm this time
normal tinsel
que up soon crystal!
normal tinsel
lets que up!
normal tinsel
it's now popping
normal tinsel
ggs to those who played on crystal!
also a lesson on feast
don’t stay in when your team is in the lead in the last 10 seconds or else you throw
😔
remote merlin
normal tinsel
melee is 12
ranged is less than 5mins
tank is 8 mins
heals are less than 5 mins
normal tinsel
HOPE PEOPLE THAT QUED HAD FUN TONIGHT
WE WILL QUE SAME TIME AGAIN
8 PM EST
restive lark
Making your own clips 
normal tinsel
jolly pendant
Is pvp dead? Every single Q, even for daily, seems totally dead. Even with frontline and all languages. D: D:
Been like this for days seems like.
normal tinsel
depends on which DC you're on
Crystal pops every night
same with Primal
i'm assuming you're playing on NA
glad silo
Chaos also pops quite frequently
normal tinsel
it’s popping
amber escarp
is this where i can shill my twitch channel too for pvp
normal tinsel
Tank: instant or 5mins or less
Heals: instant or 5mins or less
Melee: 15mins or less
Ranged: 10 mins
these are crystal ques btw
normal tinsel
Crystal que times rn
ranged more than 30
melee is 5mins
heals are 8mins
tank 15 mins
feast btw
normal tinsel
ques are popping rn
normal tinsel
ggs today crystal
we que up same time tomorrow!
normal tinsel
Crystal is apparently popping
Tank: less than 5 mins
Heals: 6mins
Melee: 8 mins
Ranged: 6mins
normal tinsel
we have gotten two pops so far
que up if you want
normal tinsel
we getting consistent pops now
normal tinsel
still popping!
ripe arch
are there any youtube channel that constantly upload pvp stuff that I can follow?
flat panther
no, not really, why you ask?
PVP hasn't had any major changes gameplay wise, besides the minor skill revamp with 5.1
It's not like WoW with it's open world PvP servers where you want every advantage you can get cause every kit is fairly balanced
(except for ninja but ninja is ninja.)
normal tinsel
yeah there is a youtube channel i know
@ripe arch
also most pvp content is streamed on twitch
he also streams as well
i also stream pvp here https://m.twitch.tv/shpp/profile
remote merlin
Is feast a esport?
normal tinsel
almost that time again!
lets clap enemy gamers in training que feast!!
on Crystal btw
players in que are saying they are getting pops so que up!
devout harbor
Is this channel just inugami talking to himself
normal tinsel
remote merlin
None of you better pop feast today, imagine feasting on xiv when you could be feasting food with family or friends irl!
devout harbor
sorry im british, if we took a day off everytime we killed indiginous people and stole their land, we'd never get anything done
mild mural
Well I'm at work and haven't really touched the Feast since S8, so no worries there
normal tinsel
For the players that have no fam or want to clap people after they eat
Que up Feast Crystal!
normal tinsel
it has popped
normal tinsel
more than two healers in que rn
normal tinsel
There is currently two games at the same time
normal tinsel
once again Happy Thanksgiving and i hope yall had fun!
normal tinsel
Ranged: 9min
Melee: 8mins
Tank: 30 mins
Heals: 22 mins
if you're looking to que early
not sure about pops though
Crystal
normal tinsel
it's almost time again!
que up crystal!
and hurt each other physically!
feast is popping btw
normal tinsel
Crystal que times for feast rn
Ranged:Less than 5mins
Healer: 9mins
Melee: 11mins
Tank: 6mins
Nearly that time again
people seem to be queing early so que up!
blissful pond
stupid question - I read in some places that switching GCs glitches out pvp level stuff for the achievement; is this still true? Can I switch GCs safely without locking myself out of achievements?
glad silo
Dunno i switched GCs after i hit lv 50 on Mael and leveled adders to 40 now without any problems
fading aspen
That sounds like something that has been fixed. I've had lots of friends who switched to mael and haven't reported problems
bright tiger
Hope it's not that time soon
normal tinsel
Almost that time again Crystal!
lets que up and have fun!
games are already popping
que times rn
Ranged: Less than 5mins
Melee: 12mins
Healer:12mins
Tank:less than 5mins
normal tinsel
que times may vary
normal tinsel
a game is active
normal tinsel
Another hour away before feast night on Crystal!
lets que up!
should have two healers in que rn
it has popped once
get yourself and your friends
normal tinsel
que up rn to see if we can have some early games before 8pm!
almost time
QUE HAS POPPED
rigid zenith
Man frontlines is dead rip
normal tinsel
Aight Crystal it's almost time to smack each other around again!
lets hit those ques again tonight!
normal tinsel
QUE HAS POPPED
normal tinsel
ques are still popping!
get in here
normal tinsel
games are back to back rn
Healer: Less than 5mins
Tank: 6mins
Melee: 12mins
Ranged: 7mins
normal tinsel
ques for each role have gotten lower
remote merlin
Petition to rename this channel to "Inugami's Crystal PvP Community Announcements Channel"
normal tinsel
remote merlin
normal tinsel
since my isp was crapping itself and Crystal scrims being hosted last night i couldn't advertise but dw we will be queing up again tonight!
If you're an amateur at pvp and want to play and learn the fundamentals in feast for next season just send me a dm to join Crystal scrims!
normal tinsel
just made a linkshell for when feast pops
send me a tell in pf
normal tinsel
ques are popping rn!
wary nymph
https://www.twitch.tv/brianricardo Last day until patch! Streaming PVP until patch notes. Scrims right now
normal tinsel
Won't be advertising Crystal pops today since we got a patch soon
have a good night feasters
faint elk
BYE FELICIA
amber escarp
ovoo what's this
eternal root
The end.
mild mural
So far it seems like the daily rotation is still in effect. Right now you can queue Nadaam or Secure, but naturally, the new map will be more of a focal point
Still, the option is there.
pastel kelp
Wow, frontlines are hilariously bad. lol
normal tinsel
lets hit those Feast ques!
i know most of yall are probably playing FL but if you're still down to play feast
que up!
amber escarp
Is it possible for me to get that Seal Rock coat still with the other pvp modes being dead cause Onsal Hakair is the only thing available in the daily frontline?
carmine plank
not until it comes back into the rotation :[
mild mural
Actually, I saw today that the daily rotation of maps hasn't been affected, only the Daly Challenge: Frontline "roulette" has
Basically, you can queue the old map that would've been available that day (today was Seize, ironically) and the Nadaam remains available beside it
But if you choose the roulette, so to speak, you will only get the Nadaam
sullen void
roulette will only be nadaam til most likely .2 patch to give it time for ppl to get all achievements in it i guess then others will probably be added back to roulette again
shrewd lava
I do wonder what's the point giving tanks aoe skill when they die in a second or two on frontline
fallen portal
Is it just me or queue for Nadaam takes alot longer to pop now? Its been fast all day yesterday but not today 🤔
carmine plank
been popping consistently since about 8am pst on primal
fallen portal
oh i guess it was too early then lol
mild mural
Yeah, safe to say queues will be slower/fewer during typical work/school hours
hallow vale
Yesterday had a nadaam where a rank A ovoo spawned very early right in the middle island node.
All 3 teams fought for that node for almost 5 minutes at least. Was very hectic. In the end as other nodes opened up and people died, the melee ended
Oh loving the new pvp theme too!
mild mural
The new map is a lot of fun, especially when you have a team willing to fight. It's a huge rush when everyone's battling for an ovoo then your team either wins the battle and claims it, or sneaks the capture during the grand melee
It feels like that wild brawl during the Nadaam back in Stormblood MSQ
hallow vale
Until people who hasn't done Stormblood or sprouts go wtf at the map/mode name
spring lotus
uhm
how super competetive is frontlines and PVP? Like I'm Ast, and I'm not really great at PVP and have never done it in ffxiv.... So probly I'm going to let my team down.... is it something where people get super toxic about it?
normal tinsel
Due to a request from people on Crystal i will be advertising Feast again!
already have multiple players wanting to que
so if you're tired of the new FL map que up!
mild mural
@spring lotus You don't have to be an expert at playing, and to be quite honest, the larger majority of players these days don't know what they're doing. People may get nasty at times, hell, I'll even jump down someone's throat if it's well deserved (like, if they're afking or throwing matches just to finish quickly), but expectation of basic effort and participation is no different from PvE. You only need to try and cooperate with your team. You won't always win, and some wins you'll have to work your ass off for, but as long as you're willing to listen, learn, and try, anyone will be glad to have you along.
Especially as a healer.
fallen portal
It seems like theres alot more agressive plays in the new pvp too
Often ive seen all 3 grand companies were neck to neck score
plush jewel
hej folks. How is the current situation with feats and frontlines ? I'am not playing often these days, but before 5.1 it feels like a lot of people were playing any kind of pvp and i was able the find a game in less then 5 minutes in eu prime time.
if i queued yesterday for example i need to wait > 30 minutes for a feast. were the mogry items the reason for the high activity? or whats your experience on that?
shrewd lava
Geeting errors and crashes during nadaam, i wonder why when anything besides PvP everything's fine.
carmine plank
best bet is to probably check with the chaos DC people on pvpaissa kimo and see what they've been up to. Lot may be spamming the new frontlines at the moment.
spring lotus
@mild mural thank you for what you said. i feel more encuraged and comfortble now
is it normal to wait 15+ minute sfor frontline roulett?
mild mural
@spring lotus Happy to help, and during off peak hours, waits may be a bit longer than previously, partially due to the removal of 24 man matches as an option.
fallen portal
flames has been insanely aggressive on kill spree today even before s rank nodes spawn they already over 1k scores from killings alone... what the fuck is going on lmao
mild mural
Players switching to, and queue syncing Flames, stacking the favorably-imbalanced melee jobs, and taking things too far, whether in an attempt to fast track grinding the new mount, or just wanting to show off. I don't condone it, and want nothing to do with it.
spring lotus
What what do you mean by switching to?
willow fulcrum
@plush jewel you had a lot of people doing last min. farming for the Garo event, which ended with the start of 5.1.
mild mural
When you change grand companies, that directly affects what team you play for in Frontlines, without the Freelancer option on. If you queue as a group of 2 or more, the Freelancer rule is automatically applied and you can be placed on any team. But if you turn it off, and just time your queues with others of that GC, you can bypass the premade limitation of 4 and create stacked teams greater than the original limit of 8 for premades.
Bit of a scummy move, no better than all the mistaken advice of the last 2 years to "switch to Maelstrom and turn off Freelancer to increase your win rate" (functionally the same thing, but done more in ignorance than actual planned advantage), and for those trying to do it as a means to protest the restriction and limitation of premades from 8 to 4, it's a poor means of protest that will only backfire if/when SE somehow imposes further restriction to "fix" the problem.
spring lotus
Ooooh. That explains a couple things then. Like last night when i was with my friend who is also maelstrom it took forever to que. And then we were always on rabdom teams. Maybe this explains the crappy 40 minute wait times?
But also, in videos i watched i thought they said they did away with your gc affected who you qued with and now you can be on any side.
Also screw changing gc... ive worked too hard for maelstrom
deft oriole
Frontline freelancer is an option in the duty finder options tab.
You can turn it on to be sorted into a random GC
Or leave it off to ensure you queue in the gc your character is affiliated with, the traditional way.
indigo fjord
What the actual fuck is with Flames having pvp top 100 killers
and literally spawn killing one GC
Can we get an option to force freelance for everyone
forget parties of four
no parties at all
or at least a separate mode for people in parties
plucky finch
If you can't kill people at base, your team is just super bad
restive lark
Still losing even with invulnerability advantage 
amber escarp
Imagine having invulnerability buffed to 15 seconds and 24 man removed for 72 man to make brainless zerging a more viable option and still losing and complaining
at spawn
normal tinsel
LMAO WHAT
remote merlin
Is that the infamous aether sync que I been hearing about?
Only thing I agreed with was the freelancer for everyone thing they said, everything else about party's is kinda dumb
winter canopy
I did my roulette yesterday to try out the new mode and all I got the whole time was my team complaining about a premade from the last couple days
Wasn't the best introduction to the new mode
remote merlin
Yea the top 100 feast players are making it unfair
On aether abusing the que system
Which is why freelancer should be on by default so dumb it isn't
On my datacenter (crystal) it's not that bad of a situation like que sync and stuff the problem here is that everyone has this mentality that maelstrom always wins
So they are scare of engaging red
And let them get the nodes and stuff it's dumb
Not sure about primal
amber escarp
When people say just kill the premades spawncamping you
like what kind of limited person are you
Just crank out oranges and clear savage week 1 4head
winter canopy
What got me was that we weren't even losing
Both teams just randomly decided we had too many points
amber escarp
The best strat is for 2nd and 3rd to team up vs 1st
But in my experience on primal flames usually just tunnel on adders regardless of what's going on
winter canopy
Day 2 of my team complaining about a premade and creating a self-fulfilling prophecy ._.
woven night
On Light data centre, it's Adders that are premades and it's really, really annoying. They're just a bunch of cowards that don't want to face real competition and properly earn their victories, they want all of the veterans (like myself) on their team and to just shoot fish in a barrel. It's sad and 1vs1 I usually destroy them - unfortunately those opportunities are few and far between.
normal tinsel
just get better and play smarter lol
they aren’t invincible unless you have a bad mindset
winter canopy
I fully believe we would stand a chance if people didn't load into the match and start saying we're going to lose
Like yeah we're going to lose because you're afraid of this premade
mild mural
Been saying that forever. Just giving up before you try pretty much guarantees you'll lose. If you at least try and somehow fall just short of winning, that's less upsetting than never even giving yourself a chance
amber escarp
You don't try your best and fall just short of winning vs premade stacks, you try your best and get your teeth pounded in
amber escarp
When you try
light aurora
rip, queues on crystal are back to 30min+ for maelstrom
amber escarp
the premades arent even playing seriously LOL
they're just playing for fun and doing off-topic chitchat
you don't need a dose of adderall and a pair of tryhard pants
just get out of the "I'm gonna lose so I'm not even going to bother" mentality and stop infecting others with that trash attitude and when you have an alliance that isn't full of low-energy, thumbsucking crybabys with at least a basic understanding of how the pvp combat system works, you'll win
because get this, even if they force frontline freelancer on everybody, it wont ever change the fact that you never tried, and you'll always be a non-factor towards the end result because you never bothered learning to play and/or get better and just chose to complain
saying you need to be some orange fflogs playing week 1 clearing savage raider to win is downright silly and ridiculous, the whole mindset and combat is completely different from this mode, the fact that you're even comparing the two shows your lack of understanding of pvp
hallow vale
Is there a pvp-focused discord? Like how the balance is for endgame?
I heard of pvpaissa, does someone have a link?
normal tinsel
pinned msgs
hallow vale
Oh thanks
normal tinsel
healer: less than 5mins
Ranged: 22mins
Melee: 8mins
Tank: more than 30mins
PEOPLE ARE IN QUE
QUE UP
it's popping actually
cedar lion
is there a group of people who do daily/weekly pvp (the new mode) and if so, may I join? ^^
normal tinsel
i'm advertising feast training on Crystal again!
8pm est tonight!
normal tinsel
games still popping
melee: 15mins
ranged:10mins
healer: less than 5mins
tank:10mins
que times rn
times may vary
normal tinsel
TWO GAMES AT THE SAME TIME
another game just popped
there is one currently in progress
worthy rose
earned spawns ggez
pliant holly
i need 18k wolf marks STAT but pvp queue/frontlines roulette is taking more than an hour to pop ;-;
carmine plank
Unfortunately the queues don't really start popping often till the afternoon on primal
winter canopy
especially on weekdays
normal tinsel
melee: 5mins
tank: 30mins
heals: 5mins
ranged: 7mins
ques times for feast rn on Crystal
if you're looking to get games early!
WE GOT A GAME
QUE UP CRYSTAL
minor lintel
Do anyone know of any controller guides/tips for PvP ? Im specifically looking for tips and advices for targeting efficiently with a ps4 controller. Most of my problems are with frontlines where there are multiple enemy targets to cycle, in the feast its not much of a problem. Any tips/advices are greatly appreciated.
normal tinsel
games are still going!
que feast
normal tinsel
Just an advertisement for tonight!
Get your practice in for feast!
ques are popping early if you're interested
flat kiln
anyone interested in doing feast practice tonight? @ me if you'd like to come!
faint elk
more shitty games tonight
0 wins
idk why i even bother
i feel like my entire team is fuckin rmt bots
normal tinsel
try not have high standards or no standards at all in training matches
a lot of new players after all
even though some things should be common sense but it's best to tolerate it
normal tinsel
Crystal feast times
Ranged: 7 mins
Healer: less than 5 mins
Melee: more than 30 mins
Tank: 17 mins
normal tinsel
Ranged: 7 mins
Healer: less than 5 mins
Melee: 6mins
Tank: 17 mins
normal tinsel
still popping on Crystal
Ranged: less than 5mins
Healer: 5min
Melee: less than 5mins
Tank: less than 5mins
just updated
there is also two games at the same time rn!
deft oriole
Finally, there has been a noticeable increase in one-sided matches, which we believe may be due to multiple parties coordinating to queue at the same time under the same Grand Company to be placed in the same team. Our solution to this will be to change how teams are formed. Players will be distributed into random teams, regardless of their Grand Company.
Huh.
amber escarp
nice
normal tinsel
Feast times rn on crystal
Ranged: 5mins
Healer: less than 5min
Melee: 7min
Tank: 8mins
i'm on healer...again so que up so we can get these games moving
normal tinsel
A GAME JUST POPPED ON CRYSTAL
IF YOU WANT TO QUE UP!
Ranged: 8mins
Healer: less than 5min
Melee: 29mins
Tank: 23mins
normal tinsel
normal tinsel
Ranged: less than 5mins
Healer: 7mins
Melee: less than 5mins
Tank: 7mins
JUST UPDATED
normal tinsel
still popping btw
normal tinsel
still going!
shrewd lava
Freezing, rubberbanding and disconnects in Onsal.
Anyone have this issue?
Strangely this doesn't happen in other frontline maps
normal tinsel
Ranged: 20mins
Healer: 6mins
Melee: 8mins
Tank: 12mins
last update for que times on Crystal
normal tinsel
Crystal
Ranged: 19mins
Healer: 7mins
Melee: 8mins
Tank: 30mins
sick niche
smh this inu guy talking to himself all the time
normal tinsel
Ranged: 17mins
Healer: less than 5 mins
Melee: 5mins
Tank: less than 5mins
que times!
just had a pop
QUE CRYSTAL
TWO GAMES AT THE SAME TIME
QUE UP
normal tinsel
Crystal Feast
Ranged: 9mins
Healer: less than 5 mins
Melee: 10mins
Tank: 5mins
normal tinsel
Crystal Feast
Ranged: less than 5mins
Healer: 11 mins
Melee: 6mins
Tank: less than 5mins
last update for tonight
hexed bobcat
Oh. I've played with @normal tinsel. Did yesterday. I was going to target their Dancer at match start but you were adamant about the DRG so I was just like, "Okay. Target the DRG it is."
It all worked out in the end, so
Honestly, I'm at a loss of what really to do as a DRK. As a NIN, it was easy to figure out what to do in PvP. DRK... be an annoyance/distraction/cover for heals and the ranged deeps?
normal tinsel
HP bars don't matter if everyone takes the same amount of damage
hexed bobcat
if that's the case, wouldn't they matter because of the person having less HP
Asking out of genuine curiosity, btw, not snark or sarcasm
normal tinsel
For drk it's simply protect your team with CC like shield throw and full swing and stun, On countdowns you want to interrupt healer with weapon throw and stun and put Edge of Shadow debuff on the burst target for less healing and just start bursting with bloodspiller or with whatever you have
what?
hexed bobcat
If everyone takes the same amount of damage, wouldn't having less HP make them more of a target
since they have less HP to deal with said damage
normal tinsel
it's easier if the ranged has no idea what they are doing or have poor positioning but farming them over and over doesn't give your team a big lead so the other team could basically kill your melee or tank all from one kill and come back ahead since they will be carrying a large amount of medals
hexed bobcat
Ahh. I guess I was curious why you were intent on getting their DRG instead of their DNC yesterday.
At round start
normal tinsel
Go for ranged constantly doesn't work in high level of play between Diamond and Plat
also killing the tank or melee early on in the game makes easier targets to kill
hexed bobcat
how so?
Just curious
I rarely got targeted when I was playing NIN
But all the time as a MCH
normal tinsel
Everyone starts with 100 medals and when they die with 100 they lose 50 which makes them not a win condition anymore since you will want to be going for a 600 which is a instant win for your team no matter the time limit. Which makes ranged and healer more of a easier target to win later in the same especially since it's less hp to go thru which means less effort
if you kill each member of the enemy team and pick up medals you win
with a 600 medal score unless they don't kill you or anyone on your team
hexed bobcat
Your first part answered the question, basically. Hit the DRG first because they're melee DPS and more of a target of opportunity. You can always get the Ranged DPS and Healer later
normal tinsel
melee or tank whoever has the least defensive buffs on them and yeah basically
they are also easier to kill since they are literally up front
if you know how to burst properly then it should be easy
As a melee dps you should be going for a burst on everyone to get enemy defensives and cooldowns to make your next burst more likely to kill
normal tinsel
CRYSTAL STILL POPPING
Ranged: 9mins
Healer: 5mins
Melee: less than 5mins
Tank: less than 5mins
CRYSTA; FEAST QUES
normal tinsel
Ranged: 7mins
Healer: 6mins
Melee: 7mins
Tank: less than 5mins
que times updated for crystal
normal tinsel
amber escarp
erryone tanky now
plain needle
can I ask beginner questions about pvp here? I have done like 8 onsal runs with friends and 1 feast training - I still don't know much
clear temple
I just tried my first Feast match ever and nobody on the other team ever died and I do not friggin understand what you're supposed to do.
heady tide
When people die, collect their medals. The team with the most medals wins
It pays to have a target hotkey to call focus targets so your team can focus one down at a time. You’ll never kill someone if you’re the only one attacking them
ignore tanks, they don’t really do anything and can’t kill you on their own
and you can’t kill them
carmine plank
ehhhhhhhhhhhhh
hexed bobcat
I am not having like
any decent luck on Ranked Feast
Feels like, as a PUG, I'm getting matchmade against far better coordinated people. lol
heady tide
well unless you’re team queueing with randoms from PF everyone is solo queueing
so just unlucky
or not understanding the format/strats
certain classes are just straight better than others in every role
hexed bobcat
Well, I'm queueing as a DRK, so I'm just being a distraction
I'm trying to cover for whoever is being targeted, but when I call out targets, no one coordinates
Should I change from Weapon Throw and Full Swing?
n/m. Finally won when I started calling out focuses
that seems to do it
😐
And now I'm winning. Go figure
leaden bane
Forced freelancer prevented the issue that had cropped up with people stacking GCs. Now, the onus is on the playerbase at large to work on learning the mode and playing better.
hexed bobcat
eh. I've had the same results with Maelstrom winning the last 7 games.
remote merlin
Think wins will depend now on who has the best leaders and callouts and who follows them etc sticking together as one big Zerg
mild mural
^ those that play well will generally do well no matter where they end up
hexed bobcat
yeah. I've created some callout macros and I noticed that it has a marked improvement on coordination
RNG plays a factor in the ovoo spawn locations though for sure
gilded iris
solar gorge
do you guys part take in pvp and enjoy it?
restive lark
ya
normal tinsel
yes
plucky prairie
if mid is a trap and it's your only choice, do you still go for it?
carmine plank
What
remote merlin
normal tinsel
!feast crystal
surreal tokenBOT
normal tinsel
!feast aether
surreal tokenBOT
remote merlin
!feast crystal
surreal tokenBOT
remote merlin
!feast aether
surreal tokenBOT
remote merlin
!feast primal
surreal tokenBOT
tawny wren
When and which mode is best for farming currency for the pvp gear?
pastel kelp
I'd just do the new Frontline since it gives a mount at 100 wins. You need 20 wins (assuming 100% winrate) to cap marks so you'll be a good way towards the mount when you finish buying a set or 2.
tawny wren
is here anything i can do to improve as a mch?
carmine plank
best bet would be to join pvpaissa and check out the mch channel after setting your role.
tawny wren
thanks ill check it out
cosmic apex
Hey, so, I'm at a loss - I'm trying to look up why I'm locked into being a freelancer, as I don't want to play as a freelancer but for the GC I'm with. Am I going to be stuck with these restrictions for a while?
amber escarp
They turned on forced freelancer because people couldn't play nice and stacked the teams with simultaneous queueing to get around the premade size restriction
No word on whether it's temporary or not
cosmic apex
Whaaaaaat? That's actually ass.... I hope the restriction lifts soon ;;
earnest anvil
sick niche
@cosmic apex they arent being lifted, it was to fight back people swapping GCs to farm wins against people who free lance
deft oriole
We don’t know if it’ll be lifted
deft oriole
Since the freelance feature toggle still exists in the UI, albeit unusable
It’s possible that this is just a temporary measure
cosmic apex
stray portal
anyone know if you can get prievious pvp season gear somehow?
carmine plank
no previous season rewards are not available.
dense steeple
they got any plans to make Onsal Hakair not 85% blind fucking RNG?
they seriously need to figure out some way of ensuring the maps don't just hand free objectives to teams in a chain
deft oriole
RNG is a pretty small factor overall.
dense steeple
not really
it's the defining feature of the mode
which nodes pop and when
I've had so many games where two teams are practically working together because one is feeding the other while simultaneously preventing the third team from challenging the first team that's feeding on the second
100% due to RNG with where nodes pop
it's actually become really common to see games where the score is like 1600/900/600
because of that nonsense
deft oriole
That’s due to teams having bad strategies.
Nodes over the course of the game are balanced re: how many appear in what parts of the map overall.
To win a match you need good callouts and an alliance that will actually listen
Hoping you match with players like that is the rng, lol
Keep your maps open and don’t blame losses on stuff that’s totally surmountable.
dense steeple
Bruh I don't know how many rounds you've played but I feel like it hasn't been very many. If all three teams are competent it is almost wholly based on RNG with where nodes spawn and when
OH has depressingly little to do with team skill. Push point, take it or don't, fall back and regroup, repeat. If RNG gives you the chance, you have room for something like "get 2 blues because it will be easier than that 1 red in mid" but..... like I said, that's fuckin RNG garbage
It's still fun and the daily roulette XP is fantastic but I really wish Frontlines wasn't such an RNG-heavy system
deft oriole
When do you see three competent teams 👀
remote merlin
The only ever non rng Frontline was "slaughter" back in 2.0 that was literally who can get 30kills first to win, it was all teamwork, individual skill, no nodes, or ice, or bases, or ovo's, or anything just straight 100% pvp
dense steeple
I see three competent teams pretty regularly. It's not like OH is complex
It's like other FL maps, just with less mechanics
night steeple
Hidden Gorge run times are Saturdays at 8 PM EST/5 PM PST if anyone wants to do Rival Wings, having trouble getting enough people to get games going on Aether. If you're free, please try it out. Most other NA data centers run it then too.
pliant holly
would i be better off using foot graze or leg graze or both when i use terminal velocity?
carmine plank
foot graze is 3s bind, that's more than enough to get LB off.
pliant holly
oke, only checking because when i tested it on training dummies the animation of foot graze would delay me using terminal velocity
tacit cedar
heya, was wondering where most of the pvp community for frontlines hangs out
shrewd surge
@tacit cedar https://discord.gg/sUy86UC
vague arch
So what's the best way to get Wolf Collars? I really want the SAM weapon but I've got no clue how to get collars nor do I have any PvP experience in this game except one lost game of Frontlines, halp? xD
carmine plank
Wolf collars come from ranked seasons of the feast, but unfortunately this current season is an abnormal one and will not reward collars for reasons. Next time we'll see wolf collars is the next season which is scheduled around the 5.2 patch.
You get more collars the higher you place. Bronze is 3, silver 4, gold 5, platinum 6, diamond 7, and finishing in top 10 rewards 10 collars.
vague arch
And is that a per season basis or can I redeem placement rewards as I place higher?
carmine plank
They're only awarded out based on your placement at the end of the season, so you have to wait I'm afraid.
vague arch
Ahhhh, is the PvP learning curve as bad as other MMOs where you need to memorize everything about the map+all your skills to get better or is it merely a skillbased form of PvP like a 1v1 in say Call of Duty?
carmine plank
Definitely need to know your abilities inside and out and also what to look out for from opponents. Knowledge goes a long way so it's much moreso the former rather than latter part of your question.
lavish bear
how the heckdo hit stuff in frontlines lol
i feel like as a smn people are always out of range
and if i get close i die
amber escarp
Stay behind your tanks, try to get a feel of whether your team is advancing or retreating and how the enemies are moving
amber escarp
It's a lot like positioning as a ranged carry in a moba, in most situations where you get collapsed on it means you were already dead before you even took any damage
not sure how good or bad smn is tbh, I don't think it's great though
lavish bear
wat about samurai?
amber escarp
I think melees are pretty good in general
ripe arch
is NIN the best class at solo roaming and disengage in frontline?
gray mulch
are there any rewards for playing frontlines?
ancient spindle
ebon cairn
is there like a pvp schedule?
remote merlin
It's usually active at afternoon times for whatever time zone your in
amber escarp
shouldnt be solo roaming in frontline.
normal tinsel
for some reason people are queing training on crystal instead of ranked
healer: less than 5mins
melee: 15mins
ranged: 6mins
tank: 7mins
so if people want to que training
maiden tendon
@lavish bear what world are you on
lavish bear
im on exodus @maiden tendon
maiden tendon
Ah ok
lavish bear
why?
maiden tendon
Just wanted to help you and wondering what world you were on
vernal wing
looking to join a permanent team feast party in order to shorten queue times. haven't pvped much but want to get into it.
tawny wren
Hot take: Front Lines shouldnt have been associated with Grand Companies. But rather something like the Crucible in Destiny where its just adventurers pitting their skills against each other in a one side vs the other organized by the Adventurers Guild.
sacred copper
Which class do you guys think is best at 1v1?
amber escarp
healers
remote merlin
That's boring though and will never end
I say tank if you actually want fun with it
regal leaf
Tanks, yeah.
At least in my experience warrior has won me most of my 1v1s with Holmgang, unless it's a healer and I literally cannot kill them
But as WAR I can win against most DPSes and tanks
vernal wing
what has shorter queue times out of all of the modes?
bright bolt
Usually it's frontlines since there is a roulette for it. More recently, Rival Wings because of the tomestone event.
zinc tiger
How can i turn off that Frontline Freelancer 😒 ?
spiral brook
Can’t. It’s permanently on for the moment as a way to counter people who exploit the queue system to get larger premade parties than intended.
zinc tiger
That sucks ... i had so many good runs with Immortal flames -.- and now i keep loosing because i get pushed into other factions
boreal cosmos
how do people pvp? i queued up for daily challenge last night and well... 200+ minutes and nothing
it took like 5 mins in the morning for me though that might have been saturday night for most people
remote merlin
Unfortunately this games PvP is so lackluster and uninteresting to the community
So it isn't like other games where it can play 24/7
Usually it's around prime time
When it pops
I'm also on crystal and it usually takes till the afternoon to pop
Dead at morning and dead at midnight hours
@boreal cosmos
boreal cosmos
ohhh makes sense. i just need more wolf marks for glamour but i guess it can wait
ty
ebon cairn
On eu servers around 7-9 pm u usually get in within 5 min. Other than that u will wait hours.
dense steeple
PandaCombo there's no difference in teams now
I can't wait til OH isn't the only option for PvP daily roulette. After so many weeks of it, the weaknesses and problems with the mode are really apparent and grating
ripe arch
is there a high chance that 5.2 would overhaul and change the pvp skill set again?
desert jasper
ripe arch
did they ever give the reason why they overhaul and change the skill set every.X patch?
was it to shake the meta or keep PvP from getting stale?
remote merlin
Just the usual make no sense changes as usual
flat kiln
Primal Dueling Tournament Feb. 16th 8:30 PM PST!! Come take part in the MANGO CUP! Big Prizes, Double Elim, only 100k entry fee! Spread the word!
dense steeple
It's frustrating watching them flail around. PvP in this game could honestly be good if they could just be consistent
I mean shit at least they were smart enough to make PvP its own thing wholly independent of the PvE game and with no connection to gearing or item levels. Something WoW still hasn't figured out
vernal wing
lol i'd just love to try the pvp thats already in the game. queue times are REALLY bad on aether, queued for over an hour for feast ranked (and training) and couldnt game. frontlines queue is decent but i find the battles way too big for a tiny little samurai with no utility. guess i gotta wait for next season of feast and get in while its hot...
remote merlin
Pretty much
That's just how the feast is
If you care enough then you'll play during the beginning (1 or 2 weeks when season starts) any later then that it's usually to late as the early tier Ranked ques will be dead
Just how the feast ranked seasons usually are
@vernal wing
gray mulch
I am level 52 white mage and when i go to join frontlines its telling my i cannot join due to class restrictions... does this make sense? i am obviously missing something here.
is white mage a limited class?
remote merlin
@gray mulch you might be missing the job stone?
If it's white mage it should work, only class you can't que PvP with are Crafters and gathering and blue mage
dense steeple
Yeah. I do think priority to any changes to PvP should focus on getting more people doing it. It's part of why I don't understand why they don't drop FL to 48 players. Surely it would be easier to fill games if they required fewer players?
As for Feast... Meh. It's a fun idea but in my experience from being a tryhard for several years in WoW, the majority of players avoid ranked games
Feast would also require radically different design principles from FL. So players either have to learn two ways of how each class operates or one or the other mode will have serious design/balance issues
Maybe best to just add a new trophy and mount to Feast every few months and focus on FL
plain needle
Feast require general rebalance
or more like - some jobs need to be revived to be viable in soloQ
dense steeple
👍
misty oracle
I fell in love with doing frontlines as a machinist, especially because of how good it is to level a class. I'm complete garbage at samurai in frontlines, however
dense steeple
I just can't wait for 5.2 so we can have something other than onsal hakair
that mode is so fucking RNG holy shit
restive lark
least rng
dense steeple
lol what? no
flames just got 600 points due to A's and S's spawning on their side of the map
restive lark
dense steeple
it's every bit as RNG as other modes, maybe even moreso
so many fucking games one team gets a free ride because RNG hands them multiple A's
I've had so many 1600/800/x style wins
because RNG said "here, you get to win"
restive lark
i guess fighting is always out of the question
dense steeple
okay, so 3 nodes spawn east
you're on the west side of the map
and the other team is in the center
how do you contest the east side?
you fucking don't
if you try to cross you get intercepted
and because the nodes are on the east side of the map, the team with the closest base is automatically given a major advantage at occupying them early
that's fine when it's evenly distributed but it never is
S ranks should ideally spawn only in one of the three central points, top, mid, or bottom
never west or east
restive lark
center team should converge on east, and thats when the west has freedom to sandwich whichever team, the one that got those nodes mainly
if that center team legit did nothing and stood there waiting for nodes too
theyre playing the mode incorrectly
and in that instance yes
that team that got the nodes win by default
because no one knows how to play onsal
🙂
dense steeple
what happens is the center team goes in, then doesn't stick around to get pinched because they aren't retarded
then west team gets in
but the east team still has the best position because it's on their side of the map
which means they win unless they get massively outplayed
or you can somehow coordinate with the center team and go "hey don't fight us, only fight them"
dense steeple
I've been enjoying Rival Wings being active again. The game is honestly SO much better with 2 teams and 48 players
dense steeple
lol it would make it more interesting
mechs do feel a bit squishy. Did they increase player potency without increasing mech HP at some point?
devout harbor
Pretty much.
SB damage(In feast) was about 180k-220k average.
Now the average is probably 200k - 260k depending on a few things
especially for melee, melee should easily be pulling way more than 200
dense steeple
220k what? DPS?
spiral brook
total damage
dense steeple
Man. Potions make PvP so frustrating 😕
carmine plank
and they're getting buffed soon! yay!????!!
remote merlin
"I'm sure they will do a great job balancing PvP this patch right!"-said no one ever since 2.0
dense steeple
I mean they do fine balancing PvE
you would think it would be even easier to make PvP at least somewhat balanced/well designed since it's much smaller-scale than PvE
they completely gutted healers' ability to cause damage... Glare is like 1000 damage with Dia on them, on a 2.5 sec cast... so they clearly want healers to basically be healbots with very minor supplemental damage
Then they give everyone potions on top of self-healing abilities like Bloodbath anyway
devout harbor
One day pvp will be good
dense steeple
maybe if they kick off all the morons from the "pvp team" that are responsible for the mess we've got
they need a cohesive vision, but they're almost certainly just throwing turds at a wall to see what sticks
honestly the best thing they could do is get rid of the 1v1v1 format entirely
it causes so many fucking problems
the only map it feels actually functional on is... what is it, capture?
6 nodes, mammets in the middle
like if OH was just 2 teams, remove the third spawn point and place the others equidistant on opposite sides of the map but the same numbers of ovoos spawn
that would end zerging virtually instantly because there would always be more nodes than you can effectively zerg
devout harbor
From what we've gathered there is no coherent pvp team. The people on it get frequently shuffled around/given more important roles.
We could have people think about pvp some more.
Instead we get umbrellas.
We get mahjong.
We get blue mage.
The market for a pvp mmo is sitting there right for the taking, no mmo does it well.
misty oracle
Could anyone give me advice on playing NIN in frontline?
dense steeple
Use mudras from a distance. Jump in with shukuchi once you have enough for a bhava, pop fetter ward so you can stay on top of them, use bunshin and burst them down. Use Smite and Assassinate together to gib people below about 1/3
Assassinate resets on kill and assist so you want to focus on mopping up. Jump to weak targets and mudra/assassinate them to rack up battle hunger
Feint makes it easier to burst people but I usually take Bloodbath. You can do good AOE damage and stick around for a while by jumping into a crowd and spamming Death Blossom
Use ult pretty much whenever. If you're getting a lot of assists and kills it refills rapidly. Ult+assassinate will instantly kill everything that isn't a tank
I usually focus ranged and mages with it since they have the least HP so it's the easiest to gib them
I almost don't use tricks or stealth. Easy to get it disrupted by AOE spam
It's good for running away if you can break LOS for a second or two since there are very few AOEs that don't require targets
little pine
I should not be saying this as I use DNC main for PVP
But as a NIN try to aim for a DNC. Technical step and standard step have a very big AOE around them. So if they are in a group and you see or hear it going off. You may want to back away, as to not get hp loss and more importantly not get spotted if you are hiding
In short a DNC is like a ninja radar if they keep use their dances around a group
misty oracle
@dense steeple Thank you so much for the advice you gave me, it really helped
@little pine Same for you
Now I can play like i'm actually Hokage
dense steeple
👍
little pine
devout harbor
That ninja advice isn't particularly great.
You want to initiate with kakuragemi and stealth. If you get it disrupted, who cares, now you are close enough to begin doing damage, and you always want to mark the target that you are trick atticking with 1 so your group knows to jump on them. It's 15% more damage. This nullifies all defensive except stacking.
You never want to 'focus on mopping up' this is lazy and selfish. It does not matter who gets the kill, just that a kill happens and the order is assassinate then smite, because you can still buffer actions behind the animation for assassinate.
Feint is a must have, bloodbath is a good call, but I prefer arms length with the potion changes, especially for groups. Either is fune but as long as you have feint.
Don't use 'ult whenever'. In solo situations I wait until I hear the 3 potions pop, then go for it, or I do it first thing if trick attack fails to get the potions out asap. In groups, I lb who is out of position the most, otherwise you're locked still for 5+ seconds, a death sentance in group pvp.
Yes, casters and mch+brd are the easiest targets, but so are dragoons.
Dancers it's nearly always never a good idea to go for them, they have 3 dashes ontop of what phys range usually have. You can very easily get solod by a dancer as a melee.
For bursting in fl
I bhaka, mudra, bunshin, hyosho, gcd then everything else is dependant on what they are doing or what is happening, also consider that assassinate locks you in place, on a running target you might not want to go for that until last thing
molten herald
plain needle
for melee Feint is like Dart for casters, like rampart for tanks, like recup for ranged - must have in PvP without single word, period
remote merlin
Except feint doesn't benefit everyone except you unlike dart so they are pretty different
devout harbor
It's a 25% ogcd increase that lasts 6 seconds
It is broken
If you full burst with nin you can literally get way over an additional 6k damage from feint alone
This is some pvpaissa mentor level suggestions telling people not to run feint
leaden bane
plain needle
melee in pvp without feint is not a treat, it is waste of spot in group
🎀🌸𝓟𝓻𝓲𝓷𝓬𝓮𝓼𝓪 𝓥𝓪𝓷𝓮𝓼𝓼𝓪🌸🎀Today at 2:56 AM
Except feint doesn't benefit everyone except you unlike dart so they are pretty different
you didn't got me there - feint is "must have", a "Do Not Enter Arena Without It" additional, you got point on dart not being additional anymore
remote merlin
Oh no I didn't mean don't use it im saying that faint benefits your dmg compared to dart benefitting everyone's dmg that is attacking the same enemy like just stating why they are similar but different not a don't use it xD
plain needle
well, I know this, just forgot dart is job, not additional, I should say it is same as Manaward for casters
vapid anchor
are monks good in pvp?
devout harbor
This might change when the patch goes live so I'd ask on like 8 hours
But monks are the best for feast
Still fine for rw and fl but maintaining stacks would piss me off
leaden bane
Melee is generally agreed to be mnk > sam > drg/nin
but yeah, we've no idea how things are gonna change
normal tinsel
I will be advertising training ques for feast tomorrow again for Crystal feasters!
LETS TRY OUT THESE CHANGES
devout harbor
Holy shit
Fuck what I said yesterday
Bloodbath changed to 100% that's dumb as fuck
Nerfed ninja's burst for like, no reason
Oooh
I am liking mch
MCH just got and additional 1k- 2k+ damage on it's burst
Still dancer's survivability remains but I would not be surprised if all the better players start playing machinist because it's burst
normal tinsel
lets have some fun and practice Crystal gamers 
we will be queing up tonight
i will announce if ques pop early!
normal tinsel
don't you walk in like that
normal tinsel
QUE UP TRAINING
ALMOST TIME
QUE UP
dense steeple
@devout harbor you literally get +10 instead of +2 so "mopping up" literally is the best thing NIN can do because they're practically designed to do it with spammable Assassinate
You can get BH 5 absurdly fast if you're good at finishing people off
@plain needle Rampart sucks. Better to have the AOE damage down and the death grip button, especially for WAR
Death grip into holmgang is pretty much always a guaranteed kill
If server tickrate was higher I'd do the punt skill too, two different ways to throw enemies into the middle of your team's mosh pit
But with how laggy servers are it seems like it always does the opposite
I have my death grip macroed to mark them too
Although people usually thump them anyway because they're right there
devout harbor
Yes don't contribute to kills only last hit
upbeat lotus
Rampart allows you to take more risks in FL, not taking it puts unnecessary stress on healers during a push.
Esp. against BH targets you want to snipe.
dense steeple
@devout harbor they aren't mutually exclusive
@upbeat lotus maybe it's different for other tanks but def not WAR. AOE damage down or even Retaliate is fine in the event I dive a pile of enemies because I'm going to be reliant on holmgang to stay alive/kill my target in any case. And nascent flash is an insane amount of healing since unga bunga button also makes you immune to stuns etc
I find WAR more effective using death grip and holmgang to yoink healers into a dogpile and to debuff/peel people off your mages
Tank is the only role I don't care about hoarding BH on. If I die but setup six kills or yoink a BH 4-5 into our team it's a good trade
AOE damage down is such a stupidly powerful skill
And I have a hard time imagining playing a tank without death grip. But I only play WAR so maybe That's due to the obvious and insane synergy with holmgang
It's a 100% guaranteed kill unless it's a healer that has their GCD open for Attunement
upbeat lotus
You're definitely taking Rampart and Weapon Throw in majority of cases. Reprisal suffers from AoE snapshot, Full Swing requires immaculate positioning or additional crowd control for maximum effect, Retaliate can be immediately avoided upon sight but also can be burned through with usage of healer group healing to great effect and doesn't actually mitigate incoming damage as effectively as one might think.
Both the effective and immediate value of Rampart and Weapon Throw outweigh the value of others, despite myself preferring Retaliate in Frontline when I can rely on a premade pocket healer. Weapon Throw would give me far more value in majority of cases and I often take that over Retaliate in majority of matches, Feast or Frontline.
Mind you, I main Warrior and Dark Knight so I'm definitely speaking for the two most powerful tanks in most use cases.
devout harbor
Literally everything you have said has been wrong, but not only that, in most cases about what you are saying, the opposite is true.
'Mopping up kills' is the worst thing you can be telling people. Ninja has the best initiation tools for groups, is one of the best for soloing and 1-1 fights is the best dps for instant damage and not having to kickstart damage like with gl or dragonseye.
it's literally the assassin archetype and you're regarding it as if it's a janitor
but then again if you're not running faint I'm not suprised you can't pull off kills without assistance
dense steeple
Oh my god can you please fucking not do the fucking immature e-peen bullshit?
Jesus I'm embarrassed for you
upbeat lotus
I don't think attacking their character helps your argument either.
It goes both ways.
dense steeple
It doesn't. That's why I'm asking them to not start it
upbeat lotus
dense steeple
They keep making these dumb strawman arguments
upbeat lotus
Back to the topic, the results likely seen from Crystal Frontlines also doesn't hold well to represent the best use cases of the additional actions as well. I feel that you could effectively take anything and make it work due to the vast majority of players who participate not being able to contribute effectively and providing false positives to skill usage.
Especially using the evidence of win density to skill level of individuals during periods before force freelance.
dense steeple
FL doesn't even really reward individual skill. The single best way to win games is get a pile of macros to do calls with
devout harbor
Yes it does.
upbeat lotus
FL does reward individual skill, though it has a much lower weighting to macro play.
dense steeple
Let me rephrase: FL doesn't let one skilled person decide a match like Feast
upbeat lotus
You often see the correlation of player damage/battle high count/kill count with the winning team than the losing team
That's because of how much higher skilled individuals with better macro play can carry them.
dense steeple
Disagree. I'll easily be top healing/damage done if I mindlessly zerg mid
That doesn't help us win
upbeat lotus
The fact of the matter is that having 10 players knowing to press 1 on a target helps more than a lower count.
dense steeple
Obviously
upbeat lotus
Playing mid with no success is the correlative point here, which applies to kill count.
I also did not mention healing because you can pad the stat with overheal.
dense steeple
If you're good at doing damage you're gonna get kills
upbeat lotus
So it has very little correlation with victory counts.
dense steeple
It still won't matter though
devout harbor
People don't play optimally, or know how to play well. That's why you don't think one person can carry.
You should make a JP alt, it'll be a culture shock to see how they play FLs
upbeat lotus
You can be good at doing damage but if the opposite force doesn't allow for a kill to be secured, then it won't matter.
It's damage that was wasted on a target.
dense steeple
Until such time as SE actually gets a competent and consistent design team for PvP I don't see the point of tryharding
upbeat lotus
You get battle high from kills, you deal more damage from snowballing battle high, you are able to control space better with a higher concentration of damage relative to the healing output of the enemy.
dense steeple
Getting kills doesn't matter if you're not getting nodes though
devout harbor
FL games will have single digit kills in the entire match, because they micro hard
upbeat lotus
You don't really have to try that hard to follow a marker and chat pings.
players at the lowest level of PvE do this
It's not a sweaty tactic in any regard.
dense steeple
Right but you're acting as if damage amounts are the determinant
upbeat lotus
You are missing the rest of my argument, then.
dense steeple
I've had dozens of wins where we damned near didn't fight
upbeat lotus
I would suggest re-reading before picking it apart.
Please do not delve into fallacies if you wish to continue with the argument. Have a nice day!
dense steeple
🤦♂️
devout harbor
Shinkou said ver batim "You often see the correlation of player damage/battle high count/kill count with the winning team.
Key word being correlation.
upbeat lotus
Correlation =/= Causation, however it is a relevant point to how majority of people who get their achievements within a short amount of time (high win density to matches played) find success.
dense steeple
Those people generally did it before forced freelancer
upbeat lotus
High personal damage, often dwarfing others within the match, higher player count with maximum battle high, higher kill count due to successful crowd control and burst attempts.
It will never be the case in 100% of games, but those who have the highest win counts overall within the mode, across multiple expansions and iterations of PvP, have managed to do so with these values in their favor and often supporting the argument that their individual skill secured them a vast majority of their wins.
Not to mention, previous iterations of PvP often had high skilled players on all factions within a consecutive amount of instances to properly test them.
dense steeple
Is the lack of that why PvP design is such a mess?
30 minute wait times probably doesn't give them a large data pool
upbeat lotus
I don't understand why this point must be mentioned towards the argument as that's an entirely different topic.
Especially if you're using Crystal for your sample size, as it's the worst example for PvP.
dense steeple
Based on what data?
devout harbor
top 100 board for one lmfao
upbeat lotus
Based on the active data on the website. Lower overall player count for Feast and Frontline, only springing activity during promotional periods.
Crystal has the lowest floors for all of Feast and Frontline, based on the lodestone data. Feast showing Crystal as the only data center to still have Gold ranking within their Top 100 and the lowest win density within a majority of leaderboard rankings for Frontlines.
dense steeple
That bad huh?
upbeat lotus
Coupled with the highest overall win density of players existing on Aether for North America frontlines (Thanks Albert for playing over 5000 games and carrying the frontline community through dead periods.)
dense steeple
Aether's supposed to be the best for PvE too isn't it?
upbeat lotus
For North America, it's probably our highest density but Primal is equally competitive.
JP definitely outweighs NA in both categories.
devout harbor
Although do consider
na has twice the playerbase of eu
and jp has twice the playerbase of jp
atleast according to luckybronco iirc
dense steeple
The differences between regions is interesting. JP FLs sounds boring if there are so few kills though. Makes me think of periods in wow arenas where 3's would literally time out because it was virtually impossible to kill people or prevent healers from getting a rez off if you did get one
upbeat lotus
JP definitely plays more around alliance responsibility and pressure than zergs and slaying. It makes for interesting plays I think showcases a different skill in being able to keep up with the rotations and combat proxy.
dense steeple
I've heard people talk about the JP community as being more... conscientious? of their impact on others. Like it's seen as poor form to go into content blind or something?
devout harbor
I think the biggest problem in eu and na frontlines is the grandstanding for numbers at the end of a game instead of more correct plays. What I and my premade would used to do was once we capped out on 8 kills, we'd begin to feed our teammates by leaving people low on health or doing the initial 70% of damage) and then letting the team get battle fever
dense steeple
Do you figure they're balancing and designing around JP PvP then? I guess potions would make sense for that sort of playstyle
devout harbor
ive never ever seen any other player do this
devout harbor
the balancing is super fucking weird
upbeat lotus
For PvE content, most definitely. There are an equal amount of variances within their Feast community as you would expect from others, such as players with poor attitudes hunting you down to debate issues that persisted in a previous match.
dense steeple
Since they don't want healers doing damage now
Lol some things transcend cultural barriers I guess
upbeat lotus
Healers definitely do damage there, they just play to a checklist very strictly when it comes to it.
devout harbor
like they rightfully nerfed monk, but then they nerfed ninja which was strong in frontlines, without changing it to be good in feast as it is the worst.
ANd they 'nerfed' dancer, but the nerf only affected the top 1% of dancers that did partner juggles
dense steeple
I'm still salty shade shift isn't a separate button anymore
devout harbor
oh and I guess the finishes also affected them mostly in fls
dense steeple
WHM doesn't feel like it does damage aside from afflatus. Assize hits for about 1k, Glare for maybe 900-1100? I guess they figure Dia is enough rDPS contribution
devout harbor
pvp is pretty dead though for now
they wasted a lot of money and resources on onsal
If the last interview regarding why there is no deep dungeon this expansion is anything to go by 'because they dont have the resources'
Then pvp has go no fucking chance lmao
idk jack about healing
upbeat lotus
Glare is filler, Dia is definitely used for prep or to immediately get your Lily Gauge to charge
Afflatus is self-explanatory
dense steeple
I enjoy healing the most but the lack of real damage outside of long cd's is frustrating
Keeping people alive doesn't matter much if they're licking windows you know?
upbeat lotus
When you have to consider they put more responsibility on players to use potions, yeah.
dense steeple
I dunno. I feel like they could make PvP fun again if they were consistent
Hell, just shifting mounts etc from wins to wolf marks would help
There's already precedent for using tokens to handle purchase prices higher than the currency cap with tokens for folklore tomes
1000 marks per win, 200 wins required... Make the mount cost 200 tokens, each token is 1000 marks. You get 1 token from daily roulette and 1 for a win, partial for a loss. Working hard only to get 0 progress is demoralizing
And maybe reduce FLs to 48 players? That would also have the side effect of making individual skill more meaningful
I definitely felt like my individual skills mattered more during the Hidden Gorge tomestone frenzy
little pine
The issue with PVP mainly is twofold
First - Is the fact you got two very different game modes that operate very differently. When changes occur it can be a boon to one but a woe to the other
Second - is that with 14 being global it has 3 different world regions to listen to. And all three of them have a wildly different approaches to PVP. Listen to one sector and you anger the others
In short PVP is a mess and will forever will be
upbeat lotus
That's not entirely it, but those are definitely issues that don't always help the mode.
You could argue the region issue with other, more organized PvP games but that doesn't entirely hold true as they measure the skill groups over the regions.
upbeat lotus
I miss you, Crit
plain needle
educating some people is impossible
upbeat lotus
A lot of anecdote carries opinions so I can understand why people tend to feel the way they do about things or become completely convinced that no other solution is possible.
devout harbor
shut up dork
unreal sparrow
so quick breakdown of pvp meta for someone whos been gone for 4-5 years?
true cove
misty hare
is there a reason why the frontline roulette map isnt changing, and the queues are 30m+? just last week they were about 7min queues for me
unreal sparrow
I dont even know the game modes.. havent played since launch
was considering white mage, summoner or dancer mostly
they all solid?
deft oriole
Onsal Hakair was a recently added map so it's staying the only one in roulette for a bit.
Eventually it should be changed back to cycling all of them.
And queues may be longer because people are actually doing current PvE content prog since a patch just dropped
whereas Frontline is more of a casual pastime when you don't have much else to do.
misty hare
ah ok thx
dense steeple
I wouldn't be surprised if participation is going down because holy shit we've been playing the same map for months
It's like those 24/7 dust servers
Yes dust and dust2 are good maps... but every maps gets boring if it's all you play
lunar briar
I was about to ask if it would be good to get into pvp
I want glams
But it sounds bad
leaden bane
It's subjective, and definitely not for everybody - I'd just recommend reading around to get a feel, go to wolves den pier to set up hotbars, and give it a try yourself
lunar briar
How do I view my pvp skills
leaden bane
Character -> PvP profie
PvP has separate hotbars you can set up in wolves den pier, and one of the first things I'd recommend anybody do before stepping in is taking the time to poke a striking dummy and tool around with the PvP skills first
lunar briar
Hmm, I do not have many skills so I think I will only need one
leaden bane
Depends on the job, and I'd also keep the Additional actions in mind too, but generally for frontlines you're not gonna need more than 2 hotbars. More for feast, but there's no ranked season running right now so you don't need the quick chat buttons available since they're feast specific.