How would you combine these two shapes to create 10 space belts of RuRuCuCu

[covert leaf]

This is my current setup for collecting the two shapes into one area. I'm trying to come up with a compact-ish way to combine them all.

[ocean spear]

alright

listen up

simple.

[covert leaf]

Okay, but I mean for routing them all into the platforms to then combine them.

[ocean spear]

first you're going to remove this entire part

then... uh idk gl

[covert leaf]

lol

This is what I came up with for combining them

but this does not seem like a sustainable use of belts

[primal bloom]

I wouldn't make such a large supply of an early game task :p

[covert leaf]

I was trying to set up a full train's worth of the first milestone to be getting delivered

10 full wagons going into the vortex as often as the train will allow.

[primal bloom]

Ah, hard not normal

Crossover platforms

[covert leaf]

oooo, I forgot about those

[covert leaf]

I managed to make a swapper that swaps 2 full lanes at full capacity on one layer, but then realized I gotta try and fit 4 of these on one platform

it's SO HARD getting two different inputs into a swapper

[dapper remnant]

You seriously over complicated this.

The final operation at the bottom of the photo should be and is perfectly set up for you to combine them down the middle of the two different incoming belts.

[north trellis]

make {CCCC:CrCrCrCr} and the square one

[dapper remnant]

It can be difficult, but in this situation there is an easy solution. Instead of laying your swappers side-by-side, lay them out one in from of the other and use belt launchers.

I was able to create all of this on a 1x2 for 12 belts.

For your build, you would only need a 2x2 platform at most to create what you want to do. ( if you have 24 belts incoming )

You’re using a 3x3 so you essentially shouldn’t be using 33% of the platform if you plan it out properly.

[north trellis]

then swapge

[covert leaf]

Yeah, I ended up redoing that design and this was about as compact as I could do it.

As for the platforms, I was able to condense them into a 1x2

[dapper remnant]

Idk if this 1x2 would be helpull to you. i just made it. 24 in 24 out symetrical.

[covert leaf]

That's basically the same thing I made, just rotated the other direction

[north trellis]

You do have to be a bit careful with a swapper design like this, since it only works for symmetrical outputs

[dapper remnant]

Do you mean it only works with symmetrical inputs ? Why be careful?

[north trellis]

i mean that a swapper has inputs AB and outputs XY
in this case, X and Y are the same, just rotations of each other, but this is not always the case

imagine you used a swapper to turn {CCRR} and {RRCC} into pure squares and circles

[north trellis]

you wouldnt be able to combine the XY outputs like you do here

[dapper remnant]

Am I combining them? Or the original post person

[north trellis]

Honestly your BP is very difficult to look at :p
The placement of the inputs and outputs seem a bit inconvenient
But it does looks like you're keeping the XY separate, which is good

[dapper remnant]

I tried to make a pure blueprint that should work for any shape, I’m pretty sure I followed all logic to keep it sound

[north trellis]

From what I can see, it does seem to be like that yeah
I personally prefer a 1x2 where both inputs are on 1 long side, and both outputs are on the other side

[dapper remnant]

Also I couldn’t create my blueprint with another input and output locations, this was the best I could do

[north trellis]

Aka, same footprint as the swapper building itself

[dapper remnant]

I agree, I couldn’t make it.

Do you know if it exists?

[north trellis]

It does, yeah

[dapper remnant]

Link?

[north trellis]

I've seen a handful of variations but one stands out above all the rest

Well that's spoilers ain't it :p

I can give you some design pointers if you want

[dapper remnant]

I want to learn from it

Sure

[north trellis]

Maybe open up another questions thing or chat in blueprint chat
Although I do have to go, I'll reply to any pings when I can be back later

[dapper remnant]

Btw, I made this for people who don’t have the third level unlocked

[north trellis]

The design I like also works floor-by-floor

So it works with 2 floors only

[dapper remnant]

I couldn’t find it in blueprints, doesn’t exist with keyword ‘swapper’

[dapper remnant]

Actually I just now came up with a better solution.

I’ll make it and show you later. Then tell me if it’s better

[dapper remnant]

created a new design works perfectly 24 in 24 out. left side input shape return on left side outputs for both as well.

[north trellis]

youre combining the XY outputs

[north trellis]

fails in this case

[dapper remnant]

CCRR and RRCC are the same shape

[north trellis]

no

INPUTS are ccrr and rrcc

outputs are cccc and rrrr

you cant combine those

[dapper remnant]

can you show a visual of what you mean by this?

[dapper remnant]

why would you want the outputs to be opposite facing like that?

[north trellis]

the inputs A and B are ccrr and rrcc
the outputs X and Y are cccc and rrrr

you are combining outputs x and y

this is a trivial case only to demonstrate that the 2 outputs are distinct

[dapper remnant]

but why would that matter if im rotating the shapes to correct orientation?

[north trellis]

how are you rotating CCCC such that it becomes equal to RRRR?

that doesnt make sense

rotating doesnt change quads

[dapper remnant]

so i guess what i'm asking from you is give me two shapes for the input where as the outputs would fail.

[north trellis]

ccrr and rrcc
but if you want a more realistic example:

[north trellis]

you use swappers to create whole crystals

you cant just combine the crystal output with the trash mask output

[dapper remnant]

it's impossible to handle a inputs ccrr and rrcc so that ccrr and ccrr all have the same output, unless you use wires

[north trellis]

incorrect

i feel like its kinda weird to tell me its impossible when ive been saying from the start that its possible

because i have such a blueprint

[dapper remnant]

can i see the blueprint

i think i'm missunderstanding you

[north trellis]

ill open the game and send a crop of it later

[dapper remnant]

you can post image of it with spoiler atachment

[north trellis]

its spoilers for you

[dapper remnant]

not if i don't care about the spoil

the reason why i don't understand the spoiler is becassue i know i can create the design. i just havnt seen a use case for what you are talking about

[north trellis]

this is why you cant mix the outputs like you are

the X and Y outputs are not guaranteed to be symmetric

in this case i think its quite obvious why

so heres my first hint: ||try alternating your inputs, like so||

[dapper remnant]

I am alternating the inputs.

[north trellis]

hint 2: ||the working design has ZERO launchers perpendicular to the swappers, as you MUST be able to fit it in half of the 1x2 foundation||

[dapper remnant]

thats exactly how i'm doing it

look at my design again

[north trellis]

its not how youre doing it at all :P

[dapper remnant]

look at the design

[north trellis]

youre combining the XY right here

it doesnt work like that

[dapper remnant]

you are talking about inputs. not outputs

your showing me hints on the input. which is what i already have

[north trellis]

you dont have the swappers in a layout where you can meaningfully apply hint 1 in any case

[dapper remnant]

i understand you want me to join the outputs. im creating a new version now

this is my first iteration on what you are talking about. is this on the correct path?

[north trellis]

hint 2.5: ||this is the exact placement of the swappers in the BP i like, as well as the belts immediately preceding them||

[dapper remnant]

how can you do that without jumpers?

[north trellis]

this doesnt apply hint 2, no

[north trellis]

there are many launchers

[north trellis]

hint 2.6: ||this is what i mean by no perpendicular launchers||

[dapper remnant]

I don't see how it's possible to do this design. if you say you have already done it, i would love to see it

[north trellis]

:P

thats why its such a good puzzle

[dapper remnant]

does the design look like a mess?

i've got this so far? close?

@north trellis close ?

[north trellis]

its got the right look to it, but its a bit tall
specifically those middle 4 might make it too difficult to route the output
think about it like this, you have to unmix the outputs the same way you mix the inputs, it takes basically the same amount of space

[dapper remnant]

the whole thing that i build needs to fit under the half way mark right?

[north trellis]

yeah, notice how this has the swappers placed by the second launcher in the side notches, just inside the halfway point

but there are 2 tiles of vertical buffer, so you dont have to make it exactly that tall

anything more than 1 taller will struggle though, i suspect

[dapper remnant]

I’m struggling the create this without any vertical launchers. I’m off by one unit of space, literally.

It always seems to be like the fence post problem, and without any proof, it feels impossible.
I’ve tried over 50 different variants and belt combinations.

Does the solution include overwhelming some belts temporarily? I hope not.

[primal bloom]

Nope

[dapper remnant]

Does it require all 4 quadrants of the platform to be unique? Or is the build mirror able

[primal bloom]

I can tell you that the two rows of swappers on the right and left half are vertically offset by a tile

[dapper remnant]

OK, this is what i just came up with? correct?

the only varient i didn't try was to have the singles on the ends coming from opposite side of the inputs. counter intuitive i must say. but i finally got it working

i could have made it more symmetrical, now that i'm thinking of it. diagonal symmetry.

[primal bloom]

Certainly looks offhand like it works

[dapper remnant]

It outputs exactly what @north trellis was saying it should output

[dapper remnant]

Are their multiple solutions to this? Is this what the amazing one looks like that everyone is here is talking about?

[primal bloom]

I think we may have a third solution now :p

The one that I like gives enough room for swapper > rotator > swapper on the same 2x1 platform

There's no chance I'd be able to find it anymore, though I do have that blueprint downloaded

[dapper remnant]

Don’t use this one just yet, I can make it prettier by more symmetry

I’ll do it later today.

[dapper remnant]

Achieving the same thing? Or what do you mean?

[dapper remnant]

Oh you mean for diagonals

[north trellis]

Yeah the blueprint willow and I are referring to is a 1x2 checkerboard maker
A swapper blueprint with enough extra space to fit in rotators and more swappers

[dapper remnant]

Can you link it?

[dapper remnant]

This would be very easy for mixed outputs.

[north trellis]

And it's not mixed outputs :p

[dapper remnant]

Show me

The only way I can see that it’s possible is of it is NOT symmetrical. And if it’s ugly I don’t care about it

[north trellis]

It's not symmetrical, I already showed you the exact swapper placements

Unless you've not been viewing the image spoilers

They're quite light on the hints, tbh

It is a 1 floor design though

You're very close to it

[dapper remnant]

I cleaned up my solution btw, it’s super clean

[dapper remnant]

I mean I can see myself creating it with one space short.. but idk if I spend enough time on it, I could def figure it out..

I could actually clean my build up even more by shifting the whole design to fill the center 2-wide gap

[north trellis]

It looks really good

Search "checkerboard" in the bp channel

From hybrid

[dapper remnant]

It’s not showing up in either blueprints or blueprints chat. Also I don’t see any posts from ‘hybrid’

[north trellis]

Yeah I can't find it either and discord mobile is cringe

[dapper remnant]

There are only 5 posts with keyword “checkerboard”

It doesn’t show up on either PC or mobile

[north trellis]

https://discord.com/channels/1000343719314198548/1274367190187114598

That's cuz I was wrong

Duh

Smh can't believe you didn't instantly know I was misremembering 🙄

/s

[dapper remnant]

lol

Yeah I see, this build is actually very similar to mine, I could just change a few things and it would work..

[north trellis]

Ye

Really good job on yours though, it's more than I could do for the time I allotted to it

[dapper remnant]

I see how the swappers are shifted. I knew some symmetrical design wouldn’t exist… I bet though… I could make a design that works only for 3 levels that IS symmetrical.

Have you seen anyone do that yet?

[north trellis]

Not that I recall right now

[dapper remnant]

I think I can make that, but yeah would not work for single or double layers

[north trellis]

This is enough to fit a checkerboard on both halves so I don't have any motivation to improve it

[dapper remnant]

My motivation is to make it prettier.

I agree, if it works it works… but I get all itchy when I see unsymmetrical builds lmao

I’ll work on one later today. I think I could do it pretty easily

Just for fun

[north trellis]

Aye

Gl

[dapper remnant]

I could not find a solution. Other than the one already found.

I had 5 different designs that were off by one square.

Some of the solutions were pretty cool too for example I tried making 2 story array of 4 and 4 with the third level being used for belt weaving.

It was a very clean design. Unfortunately it came down to two belts that needed to be crossed and were off by one square unit.