solar moat
Occasionally my throughput on this belt will dip below 100%. It's definitely having downstream impacts. But the input is a backed up train unloader and nothing more. That backed-up train unloader should just be spitting out shapes at 100% rate, right?
buoyant tundra
Try upgrading to 0.0.8 ( #✨updates ) and see if it's fixed
solar moat
Oof, okay. Bug. Thanks.
That suggests that this also is a bug. Hrm. Experimental build, huh? K. Thanks!
buoyant tundra
As a temporary measure you can replace the spacebelt ends
solar moat
I went ahead and went to 0.0.8.... which still had a few flickers of throughput problems at the start, but they maaaay have gone away? 🤔
Did you mean literally just delete and replace the ends of the spacebelt?
Still seeing throughput issues downbelt on later platforms, but that may just need time to filter through... 🤔 I'll give it 0.5-1 hours and see what happens.
No, by this point I would have expected it to sort out. This is one of the earliest points in the entire supply chain, and it's still dipping occasionally.
Wait. Might this be doing it? Using too many rotators?
No, wait, the problem is even earlier than the rotators.
solar moat
Okay, no, 0.0.8 doesn't resolve this non-train issue. I deleted the end of the entire delivery chain to force a 'backup' of everything to the source, then rebuilt the end to start it flowing again. Within a couple minutes I was seeing as low as 89% throughput in some sections, and I've traced the throughput issue all the way back to the source miner.
Have I built something fundamentally incorrectly, somehow? Or is this truly a bug? Or am I misunderstanding something? I don't think this is a problem with upstream utilization, because I'm seeing gaps down here at the source, not stops and hitches.
buoyant tundra
Are you seeing that same throughput on the belts on the extractor itself?
solar moat
Wait... 🤔 Now I'm seeing blocks and hitches down here at the source.
Somehow my problem shifted from gaps to blocks. Gotta check the other branches.
buoyant tundra
Yeah, that could do it too
If you have a cutter platform downstream, one side could be getting backed up causing the cutters to pause for a bit
solar moat
If you have a cutter platform downstream, one side could be getting backed up ca...
Any reason specifically namedropping cutters, or just as an example?
buoyant tundra
Cutters produce two outputs and if one of them is lagging behind both will be delayed 😅
It's the same with swappers, but cutters are a more frequent culprit from what I've seen
If you want to share your save, I can investigate as well when I get the chance in a bit
solar moat
Source > Half-burner > 180 degree rotation > lower input of a stacker > painter¹ > upper input of a stacker² > vortex.
{SuSuSu--} > {SuSu----} > {----SuSu} > {SuSuSuSu} > {SbSbSbSb}¹ > {RuRgRuRg:SbSbSbSb}²
¹ Visible gaps in output, but strangely displaying 100% utilization on that same belt.
² Visible gaps in upper input and output. Hitches/blocks in lower input, which is to be expected with the gaps in the upper input.
Version 0.0.8.
reef scarabBOT
solar moat
Gaps in Output. Now with 99% utilizaton.
Gaps in Input.
Maybe it's a fluid pipe throughput issue?
Switching over to a different painter design to see if that helps. 🤔
buoyant tundra
As of right now, pipes have infinite throughput though that will change in the future to be the listed 7200 L/m
solar moat
Switching to the different painter design may have helped. 🤔 Playing around with different testing methods to see if I can get the problem to reappear with the new design.
buoyant tundra
This may be the offscreen painter simulation accuracy thing that's been brought up once or twice, but also I'm not entirely sure
solar moat
buoyant tundra
Either way you can make this factory better with the bent stacker and swappers
solar moat
Hrm, how do I get the bot to do the fancy stuff it does with previews for blueprints? Or does that not work in 0.0.8 builds yet?
buoyant tundra
I'm genuinely not sure what the problem is here
solar moat
Like this: #1274751936897220648 message
solar moat
~~Either way you can make this factory better with the bent stacker and swappers...
Wait what?
buoyant tundra
Bent stackers are faster and smaller and check the top pin in #💬shapez-2 😅
solar moat
Bent stackers are faster and smaller and check the top pin in <#1000343719813324...
That's a comment about swappers?
buoyant tundra
Yes, swappers are amazing for making checkerboards like your current goal needs
solar moat
Yes, swappers are amazing for making checkerboards like your current goal needs
You said bent stackers, not swappers?
buoyant tundra
Both can improve your factory
You're doing a lot of stacking with six straight stackers, but you can do the same with only four bent stackers in a smaller area 😅
Ex:
buoyant tundra
The upgrade was only updated to say that it's faster in 0.0.8, so it's perfectly understandable
solar moat
But... can you shrink down from a 1x2 to a 1x1 with bent stackers?
buoyant tundra
As of now, only if you ignore that collisions will be coming in a future update 😅
solar moat
Collisions?
lost yarrow
It's possible but there hasn't been a design I would consider super usable right now
Launchers making shapes phase through anything is a bug
It's planned to be patched
buoyant tundra
Eventually shapes thrown from a belt launcher will collide with buildings/lifts and not make it through to the catcher
solar moat
And how do I mark this post/question/thread/forum-thingy resolved? The different painter design seems to only result in occasional visual gaps in belts when changing zoom levels or first viewing an area, but utilization seems to be 100%.
buoyant tundra
I have in fact not figured out how to set tags on threads
solar moat
As of now, only if you ignore that collisions will be coming in a future update ...
Okay. So it sounds like there's not much of a difference between straight and bent stackers for space-platform sized situations? Unless replacing the six stackers on a 1x2 with four bent stackers on a 1x2 offers some benefit? Cheaper blueprint cost, maybe? (I ask, staring at my 2.65m blueprint points...)
solar moat
I have in fact not figured out how to set tags on threads
Got it. Marked resolved. 😄
buoyant tundra
Cheaper blueprint cost plus I don't think you can make a 24-12 blueprint on a 1x2 with straight stackers
buoyant tundra
I must not have permissions for that then
solar moat
Cheaper blueprint cost plus I don't think you can make a 24-12 blueprint on a 1x...
Okay. So once I unlock layer floor 3, I'm going to want to build a new stacker design that uses bent rather than straight. 🤔 👍 Thanks.
forest spindle
Cheaper blueprint cost plus I don't think you can make a 24-12 blueprint on a 1x...
lost yarrow
https://discord.com/channels/1000343719314198548/1274856452950982716
This uses launchers directly through stackers
forest spindle
Stackers have a gap in the middle so it's possible it won't break even with collisions
But yeah still not ideal
It would be cool if whether a launcher collided with a stacker was timing dependant (as in it only collides if a shape comes through the top of the stacker at the same time as one launched through the side), that way you could still make a design like that work, but it would have to use wires to make sure the timing synced up to alternate between the launchers and stackers
solar moat
Argh. I have to unmark this one as resolved, because I'm discovering gaps again. 😬 Same spot.
Or maybe not exactly the same spot. Input on the stacker, yes. Output on the painter... not so much?
Which is weird, because the painter only feeds the stacker.
If anyone wants to take a look. I've made no progress in making shapes in an hour and I probably should. 😅
lost yarrow
it just be like that sometimes
